Birds of Prey

[Yambasticks]

In every bird even those bred by humans a wild instinct is present. They belong in trees, not in cages, in fact my favorite quote is the New York Bird Club motto. I can't remember who said it but it says 'man invented cages, and God invented trees. Keeping birds in our homes really is the "unnatural thing to do, however, since most were hand bred we owe them care, and love since they have no idea how to fend for themselves in the wild, but we owe it to them to let them be wild in doors. Let that vacum cleaner set off the flock alarm call. Give them flight down the hall. If you can harness them take them for a walk, they need sunshine. Taking Neekko for a bike ride would be stimulation he's never had in his life, it would stimulate him. Even though disabled he is not helpless, and out doors is proper stimulation to let them experience binging out their wild nature. Under these circumstances its not like making him or any other bird balance on a ball, show see see see what he can do! No, there's a difference. People pay money to see these cruel acts. Taking a bird out of the house to the store, for a walk or a ride is a bring that wild instinct out and allows them to be them. This is the point Becky is making to you. If you can't see that you really need to visit someone's home where people do frequently take their birds outside for stimulation, and definately note the difference between circus act and simple kindness. I refuse to keep my birds in the house because allowing a few moments outside is cruel because its not. You should visit Shanlungs page. You would definately know his bird is happyy outside and not a circus side show. No neekko never will be. he's simply got a very happy home where I want the best for him.

[TILLYT]

the argument really doesnt hold water for me. do you not think building a flight outside with tree branches for then to chew would be better... Exercise, stimulation, and certainly more natural.
thats what my birds have.
I dont think we are going to agree on the subject and its personal choice.

[Macawpower58]

I'd love to have an outside aviary! Maybe someday I will. I'd love to see my Macaw, Too, and Zon freely flitting from branch to branch. While I'd love a flight for my babies, it'd have to be big to allow flight, and prevent territorialism between my birds. It is a dream though.

Until then, I'll just have to improvise.

Just out of curiosity, what type of parrots are you housing in your aviary?

[TILLYT]

it is good to see them in that environment. i hope one day you will be able to have a flight or some flights. i know you'd enjoy them.
i own Poicephalus and Amazons.

[Yambasticks]

Tillyt, I think perhaps you were not understanding entirely what I meant. Neekko needs outside stimulation, and yes I believe man had no business taking them from trees and breeding them, unfortunately due to human interference we owe them a great deal, but sanctuaries, and sites like my toos . com and one little angel I have shows repeated irresponsibility people have when it comes to any bird. My son was told by his manager to throw a newly hatched baby into the garbage disposal. No he didn't he went over her head, and got the baby an appropriate home.
and I totally agree they need a natural setting, birds in general don't need us as much as we may think. I encourage my birds to interact with each other and yet have some interaction with me.

However, case in point here I have 9 birds, my zoo is pretty full, and as I gave more thought to a dear friend who's adopted 12 birds all sizes and breeds, and thinking about my work load, and sanctuaries, and now I'm aware of one about to close I've decided to search for some grants, create a sanctuary first ever non for profit bird center in Idaho, yes I'm finding it a great deal of work, but I'm going to keep working until the sanctuary becomes a reality.
The twist: Most sanctauries put birds up for adoption for people who want them going through hoops to get them, but the twist is yes people may adopt the bird or sponsor it, but the bird never leaves the sanctuary, visitation rooms will be set up with one way mirrors to keep an eye on visitors treatment of the bird. and yes, in another unusual twist I want glass or plexi glass enclosures that are near or close to the resemblence of what their natral enviornment is. Its a larger than life dream it may not turn out quite the way I want it to, but I have big plans and with the realization that once the sanctuary is full some birds will have to go to other reputable sanctuaries.

But like I said, Idaho does not have a non profit sanctuary. Many have private rescue places. Usually kind hearted people, but knowing I'll be asked again to take another bird, it would be a great idea for birds that might get a bullet in its head to have a safe and happy place to live. Neekko, yes taking him for a bike ride could be a risk, but I believe I've figured out a way to eliminate that entirely. Its called an enclosed mesh carriage so he can see out. I'd love to take him in stores but I doubt it would be allowed. So if you have ideas as I write articles of incororation and grants let me know. I can use Ideas. and Yes I intend for this to happen.
I hope this at least makes and creates some understanding of where I'm coming from

[Yambasticks]

Tillyt I have no idea why you think the idea that man created cages and God created doesn't hold any water when the point I did make and stated clearly is that our birds deserve to be wild, even though we can't allow them out without supervision because of being bred by man, when also the meaning means that birds belonged naturally in trees. now please explain to me why that doesn't hold water with you??????

[krazy4birds]

Originally Posted by TILLYT

it is good to see them in that environment. i hope one day you will be able to have a flight or some flights. i know you'd enjoy them.
i own Poicephalus and Amazons.

How many birds do you have TILLYT? How big is your flight cage and what is it made of? How much time to they get to spend in it, are you in a climate where you can do this year round? I am wanting a flight cage terribly bad for my 3 birds but there would have to be some type of dividers because the African Grey rules the roost and the Quaker knows no fear and last but not least my Green Cheek Conure....well as I have said before he thinks he's a Macaw....lol
I would love to see a picture of what you have, just for ideas.......

[TILLYT]

Originally Posted by Yambasticks

Tillyt I have no idea why you think the idea that man created cages and God created doesn't hold any water when the point I did make and stated clearly is that our birds deserve to be wild, even though we can't allow them out without supervision because of being bred by man, when also the meaning means that birds belonged naturally in trees. now please explain to me why that doesn't hold water with you??????

im sorry but im not quite getting what you're saying here.
I never said man created cages and God created..... (whatever it is you're saying God created).
you are not making yourself very clear. I'm happy with my captive birds, i believe they are happy and get plenty of stimulus without me taking them out into public places on a harness.
I find that unnecessary and not something id be happy doing with my birds. Just the same as i wouldn't be happy dressing my dogs in clothes.
Now hope that clears it up. Its your choice if you take your birds to the park or other public places, im just saying id feel unkind taking my birds to places where there's strange people, strange sights and strange noises.

[Yambasticks]

there comes a point when panic over escape accidents is really selfish, and is an indication we have not been teaching our birds "INSIDE' our homes how to set off the alarm calls, to run for cover, to do their natural instinct. Most always as well, a day or a few minutes out seldom if ever means taking the bird to the shopping mall for unwanted attention if that's what you are implying. No very few of us do that. Its usually a one on one, me, and you time, they don't need to be showed off like that. Neekko in a trike carrier wouldn't mean showing him off like that in any wa, its a matter of getting him stimulation, some sunshine and they hey there are the sky is the limit possibility. He can't fly, and yet he is showing us he is not helpless, I want him to learn how to fly and if I don't give him that stimulation he may never feel a need a desire to do so or to realize he can. My own health only allows me around the block stimulation for him. But you know, I'm not ever going to be afraid they'll fly away, ever, it already happened to me once, and yes it is a risk, but you know something else, that bird was the happiest bird in the world being free to do as he pleased in the house even if he was watched. We just can't panic, all we can do is give them the best life possible dressing birds????

No! I don't believe in that. I think that is cruel with one exception. The exception is our bald beauties that won't stop plucking. To keep you and your house from being dirtied is to me unnatural. So you have to stop assuming that people who take their birds outside in a harness, or take them for a personal private trike ride is taking them to be a circus act and be abusive. Wish yu would look at a stickified thread its called Tinkerbell the African flying Grey Parrot. Once you read, tell us if you believe people are being cruel when they take their parrot outside into the sunshine for a, "one on one!!! or do you assume that everyone totally takes them about to show them off. What on earth makes you think I'm going to put Neekko in a carriage and stop and show him off to every shopper there is? When's the next time? I want money for show and tell.
Tillyt, you couldn't be more wrong!

And as I've said, I'm giving my birds happy lives, and its always a risk of escape but they'll be searched for forever and ever, and I'm not panicing over it which brings me to another controversy, so so many people believe in clipped wings. Becky and I disagree some on this, but I believe in full flight. Clipping is for humans not birds. Birds were born with wings and God intended them to fly. I'm not using clipping to control or to catch them. Accidents and deaths are caused by either clipped or unclipped. But what matters is happy birds, and like us its a risk every day when our doors open and close, we just have to be watchful.

So I hope you realize entirely, the trike is for Neekko's stimulation, for a ride around the block, to get him to realize he can do more than walk on the floor. He is special needs! Peg legged, and there is nothing wrong with that.

However it is obvious that no matter what anyone says to you, you've got your mind made up;. We'll never agree, and we don't have to either.

[TILLYT]

good post, we dont have to agree and we won't. None of my birds are clipped either. All my birds get sunlight and i agree their happiness is important.
We just seem to have different ideas n what is wrong and what is right. So maybe we should just leave it at that.Im happy in the knowledge that i dont force my birds into a stressful situation. If you say your bird/s enjoy it then its for you to decide.

[Macawpower58]

This thread is being closed due to the OP's request.