cows and dogs.

[Kkye]

so mr. farmer over somewhere has let his cows into the field next to ours. and hey, what can you do? his land and his cows, he can put them where he wants to.

they hang out right at our fence because of the dugout on our side and the little stream on their side of the fence, and also because there's willows there and in the evening the sun sets on that side.

so, in order to keep my crazy dogs from running cows through fences if they ever get the notion to, i want to try a couple things but i'd like some opinions as to where to start.

1. should i show them the cows (because they haven't really noticed them yet, i keep them on the other side of our property when we're running around playing) and then teach them to not even look at them?

but, in doing so could i potentially be igniting an interest in the cows?

2. uhh..actually there is no number two.

so what should i do? and i can't avoid the issue, this is cow country around here. i'd rather teach them before they were like "hey hey omg i have this instinct and i'm going to do what it's telling me!!" i've never really seen them in action other than herding me, eachother, the quad and the cats. so i dunno what they'd actually do if it came down do it.

[FredsMom]

Man, I have no idea. I know keeper would go batty if she saw cows. Shes more interested in sheep but anything she can herd (squirrels, cats, ducks, sheep, cows, etc) she goes nuts over.

I think if I were you I would just try and stear the dogs clear of it. If it becomes a problem maybe you should talk to the neighbor. Tell him you have herding dogs and while you'll do the best you can with your dogs and training them, he should do the same and keep an eye on the cows and know that a situation COULD arrise.

Your dogs more likely than not wont try and HURT the cows... just want to run them around a bit. Id be more nervous aboutthe DOGS getting hurt because they don't know how to herd except by instict.

Maybe this will be your excuse to start them herding. That way, they with or withut an interest, they'll know the commands to leave them be?

[Wiztherewoz]

Just walk them past the cows calmly like all is normal, and distract them with something more fun when they show unwanted interest in them. (Unwanted as in aggressive or excitable.) It's okay for them to look, so long as they don't approach or fixate. If they look at them in a way that means trouble, immediately initiate a fun game of ball. (edit:: Do it with them on long leads at first, til you know they're safe.)

That's what I did for my dogs with sheep and it worked.

Speaking of cows, I was walking my two by a riverside yesterday... The way was clear on my way out, but when I went back to get home, INVASION OF THE COWS!! :eek: Had to walk the Frankie monster past calves and a herd of protective mommas. :p He did okay. (This time last year there's no way I'd have been able to pass them, I'd have had to have walked miles and miles all the way around to get off at the other side of the river. Eeeee, I'm proud of my lad these days when I think on. :)

[Kkye]

Michelle, dogs who run cows through fences usually get shot. Or so I've been told numerous times. And really, what farmer wants some idiot's dogs (that would be me and mine!) running the fat off his money?

These particular cows look like last years babies and I think they may be more prone to running away from the girls. Which is just grand. And it's going to be very hard to keep them away, 4 acres may sound like a massive amount of room but it's not. The two of them can run across it in no time. Plus, Kye and Rio love splashing around in the dugout, and the cows are right there.

I don't even know who's cows they are. None of my more immediate neighbours raise cows.

And starting them on herding isn't such a bad idea. My boyfriend's dad has a trained BC for his horses. I betcha he could help me.

Heather, thanks! I'll keep that in mind.

[Yogi]

As others have suggested including yourself, walk the dogs along the fence. Is the fence a privacy ie:wood fence or wire. I live on a farm and have cows. My backyard is a privacy fence and the cows gather on the other side regularly. My dogs initially were not aware they were there until one day the cows started walking along the other side and through the small slats in the wood the dogs noticed them. They started barking but over the next couple weeks they finally quit. Now the cows are there and the dogs do not care.
The problem is that though many of us saw the proverbial stampedes in old western movies, what most do not realize is that cows really have no way to perspire thus when run they are subject to what is called drop jaw. The lower area of the jaw swells and if they do not get electrolytes into their system, they can die and often do. We had a pit mix, rot and shep this past winter go after ours. One died of this. Most agricultural/farm laws state that if a dog is caught on the property it can be shot. It is the farmers responsibility to fence cows in this does not mean fence dogs out. I have had issues where a man came into our front lot about 5:00am one morning unaware that I was watching. He parked his van then proceeded to let a large black Chow out. At that point he motioned to the dog in the direction of our cows that were in the front pasture and only feet from where he was. At that the dog flew toward the wire fencing and was partially on it when I yelled to him I was going to shoot the dog. When he finally was able to make me out from the other side of the pasture and saw that I had a rifle, I noted that I was not a very good shot and would probably miss the dog and shoot him. It took him all of about 10 seconds to have the dog back in the van and was gone. I have never seen that van in the area before or since.

[FredsMom]

NO way!!!!! That is horrible. Is that even legal?!?! I had NO idea.

Can they see teh cows from where theys plash? yea i know you're right 4 acres is big but not big enought hat a fast dog can't cover it before you can intervene.

I liked heathers idea. seems a bit easier than going through the herding thing just to get them to learn. although it IS fun!

[Kkye]

Probably not legal. But what would the cops say? "Well, your dog shouldn't be chasing them!". Bernard's had more than one dog shot for running cows through fences.

And oh, yes they can see them from the front door if they were paying attention. The fence is about 4 feet from the edge of the dugout.

Yogi: the fence is barbed wire, and my girls slip under like nothin'! And holy smokes, that's an intense story. I didn't know about the drop jaw problem that cattle get, either.

Later in summer, the darn cows go through the fence to get in our dugout for water. Again, I don't blame them but I can tell you for sure I'll raise a stink when they do. I wasn't technically living on the property last year when it was happening, so I never said nothing. Again, though, I don't even know who's cows they are.

I think I'll start with what I was planning, walk them over, show them the cows, and proceed to spend lots of time teaching them to ignore them.

It can be done, and I will do it!

[Kkye]

I have been noticing that the cows are at the far far end in the morning (the guy manually waters them or whatever) and then through the day they're at our fence, and then at about 8 I can hear whatever it is he waters them with, and one cow will moo and then they'll all go over there. Then we're safe, for now.

And, if I don't deal with the problem now, I'll just have to deal with it later at some point.

[Macawpower58]

If the cows are their for good, I'd suggest some obedience lessons right by them. They will notice them, don't think they won't. If you snip this bud before it flowers, perhaps you can acclimate them through daily lessons right up next to the cows. Be very careful they don't get away from you though, or your lesson will turn into chaos.

[Kkye]

Becky, I was hoping you'd migrate this way with some insight for me.

Chaos would be right! Ugh, two cow terrorists, that's what I'd have...
I just don't want them to EVER chase them. That's where it'll go bad bad bad.

I'll add that area of the yard to my spots where I do my training. I do it all over, but just closer to the house, which I find is distracting to train in.

I love it, I say "sit" and both butts plunk down at the same time. Too cute.

[Macawpower58]

I may be a bit slow, but I eventually see the interesting threads. Good luck with your new dilemma. I do believe acclimation is the key. Once the cows become another 'thing' they see everyday, the novelty will hopefully wear off. I love when the rodeo's come to town as I can 'train' my boys around all new kinds of fascinating distractions.

[james waller]

so mr. farmer over somewhere has let his cows into the field next to ours. and hey, what can you do? his land and his cows, he can put them where he wants to.

they hang out right at our fence because of the dugout on our side and the little stream on their side of the fence, and also because there's willows there and in the evening the sun sets on that side.

so, in order to keep my crazy dogs from running cows through fences if they ever get the notion to, i want to try a couple things but i'd like some opinions as to where to start.

1. should i show them the cows (because they haven't really noticed them yet, i keep them on the other side of our property when we're running around playing) and then teach them to not even look at them?

but, in doing so could i potentially be igniting an interest in the cows?

2. uhh..actually there is no number two.

so what should i do? and i can't avoid the issue, this is cow country around here. i'd rather teach them before they were like "hey hey omg i have this instinct and i'm going to do what it's telling me!!" i've never really seen them in action other than herding me, eachother, the quad and the cats. so i dunno what they'd actually do if it came down do it.

this is a job for the dog whisper,er/ceasar millano,.he will straighten out the dogs,...but you must first become the pack leader of your dogs soas they will obey you,and learn to respect you,..sincerely james waller

[Kkye]

this is a job for the dog whisper,er/ceasar millano,.he will straighten out the dogs,...but you must first become the pack leader of your dogs soas they will obey you,and learn to respect you,..sincerely james waller

Well, there's not exactly "straightening out" to do with them, exactly. We haven't even had a problem yet, but I want to practice some prevention here.

My girls aren't perfect little angels but I do know that I am their god. They've kinda scuffled it out as to who is in line behind me, no fighting or nothing, just cheeky Rio putting Kye in her place, and Kye doesn't give two farts she's at the bottom of the food chain! I treat them the same, although with Rio I try not to flail about too much or she dances away from me.

I don't know though, even though I am the leading light of their lives, I'm not 100% sure that that fact will override the instinct which I know is there. Because I'm only a human leader, not a dog leader, I can't rip out there and try to tear their throats out (okay exaggerating there). But I see your point, james waller. They do obey and respect me, I just want to be extra-cautious in this case.

Sometimes they try to ignore me, Kye especially, but they don't get away with that. I'm working real hard at getting them to stop playing when i say so. much harder done than said. We're getting there though. Rio listens better than Kye does.

[Yogi]

Probably not legal. But what would the cops say? "Well, your dog shouldn't be chasing them!". Bernard's had more than one dog shot for running cows through fences.

And oh, yes they can see them from the front door if they were paying attention. The fence is about 4 feet from the edge of the dugout.

Yogi: the fence is barbed wire, and my girls slip under like nothin'! And holy smokes, that's an intense story. I didn't know about the drop jaw problem that cattle get, either.

Later in summer, the darn cows go through the fence to get in our dugout for water. Again, I don't blame them but I can tell you for sure I'll raise a stink when they do. I wasn't technically living on the property last year when it was happening, so I never said nothing. Again, though, I don't even know who's cows they are.

I think I'll start with what I was planning, walk them over, show them the cows, and proceed to spend lots of time teaching them to ignore them.

It can be done, and I will do it!

The owner is required by law to keep the cows in. If they are getting under an area onto your land and it is because of his poor fencing than you need to address this with him. You cannot be held liable for what could be done to the cattle if they escape onto your property. The other issue is that many do not realize that in order for him to have cattle where you live clearly notes that the area was agricultural before residential. That is something I always find amusing when people say that they want to move to the country then complain about the ugly old buildings and the smell. The ones I have heard complain the most about the livestock etc I have had to comment that if they did not like it whey did they more there. They usually reply that they feel that the farms are so smelly that they should be required to clean up or something to that effect. I remind them that they were here first and did not move to residential areas but that people like them had moved to farm lands.
It brings out a whole new perspective on looking at how we live and where. With some areas you are just some what stuck with the inevitable such as living near farms or when city folks elect to move to the country. In this case though, the farmer is responsible to repair the fence as stated, he is responsible to keep his cows in but not responsible to keep your dogs out.in my case here, mine as stated took a couple weeks before they finally realized there was no threat. A friend of mine lives in a 5th Wheel behind my back fence. He has a 120lbs Rot that initially had easy access to the cows. He got zapped by the wire a couple times so resorted to just standing and barking. This also lasted only a couple week. What is funny now is to seem him laying down a couple feet from the wire and on the other side only a couple of feet away, the cows will be laying down and he does not pay any attention at all to them nor are they concerned about him.

[Irish_Lass]

In this case Heather pretty much hit the nail on the head. Redirect any unwanted attention they show to something more fun and interesting. If you haven't already then this would be the time to start upping your "recall" training so that if they do show any unwanted interest you have confidence and security in the knowledge that when you say "come" (or your version) they will.

Recall is one of the first things we teach our Border Collies. Because they're trained as sheepdogs they have an interest in the sheep from Day 1. I can walk Lynn and Rock past and through the sheep and they'll look but they'll keep on walking, but the minute I say "come by" they'll run the perimeter of the field and know that its trialing time.

[Kkye]

Lisa: I've been working lots on Kye's recall, and she's pretty rock solid. What I'm working on now is getting that hesitation out of her that she shows sometimes. Most of the time it's "come!" and she's rippin to me, but sometimes "come!" takes a second or two to happen. If you follow me..So we're working on that.

I'm not so much worried about Rio cuz she's really stuck to me and comes immediately every time. But, I have to make sure I keep it up with her and not ever let her not come. That's why Kye was so bad.

Hey, can I vent for a sec?

When I went and visited my family, my 13 year old brother fell in love with Kye. All good and fine and dandy, until she jumped up on him once (a habit of which took forever to break) and he decided he liked it, so he would call her up to jump on him. DO YOU THINK HE WOULD LISTEN TO ME WHEN I ASKED HIM NOT TO?! Of course not. "But I like, it, Madison! and Kye does too". So NOW, Kye is right back to where we were when she was a little pup, cept she's 45 pounds instead of like 15. SO mad.

[Macawpower58]

One way to break that hesitation, and get rapid recalls is to as you call her, turn and run away from her as fast as you can, keep calling her. Believe me, she'll speed to you faster than you thought she could. Big praise when she catches you.

[Irish_Lass]

Becky is right. Recall wasn't a problem I had with the BC's but Taz had a problem with it in the beginning. I opted to try what Becky just suggested. I called "come" and would then turn and walk away. It worked every single time and when she got used to coming when I called I no longer needed to walk away, just maintain what I'd achieved.

Madison - as for your little brother. Sounds like you need to train him too! :) Kids just find it hard to follow the rules sometimes, or understand what the problem is. A wee chat should sort him out. :)

[Kkye]

Becky, thanks!

And Lisa: I tried telling him! I said over and over that it took alot of time and diligence on my part to get her to stop jumping up on us and everyone. I adopted her in November. I told him until I was sure I was blue in the face. And then mom steps in.."ah come on Madison, let them have fun. If he wants her to jump on him she can." I was like NOOOOO you don't understand!!!!!

[Irish_Lass]

Hmmm - what else can you do now besides not bring Kye with you when you visit? Sort of like a "when you follow the rules I've put in place for my dog, I'll bring her around again". Or do you live at home?

[Kkye]

No I live about 17 hours away from them. And that sounds good though: "Chris, if you don't listen to me, Kye is never more" or something.

Also, being 13, he just loves to tick off his big sister! He's turning 13 tomorrow, I can't believe it.

[Irish_Lass]

And they don't change as they get older Madison! :) My brothers are 22 and 26 - they're still the only two that know exactly which buttons to push. It just so happens (luckily) that us big sisters get wiley as we get older, and know how to handle them. ;)

[Kkye]

Great! I have a brother who's 18, a sister who's 17, and two more brothers, 15 and 13.

Are you the oldest too?

[Irish_Lass]

Aye, head honcho and don't they know it! ;)

[Kkye]

Haha! You always make me laugh.

I love them all though.

[Irish_Lass]

Oh I wouldn't change my lads for the world - I'd just banish them to a cave now and again for a bit of peace and quiet. :)

[Kkye]

I definitely concur.

[Kkye]

Well, I just want to say that I got all worked up for nothing about these durn cows. Kye and Rio see them from their kennel all day every day, and they don't even pay attention to them. They have since been moved to RIGHT beside our house. Sometimes, I swear Kye is looking over there to make sure all her charges are still where they should be.

Thanks for all the advice, I did some obedience work with them right beside the cows, and it wasn't even an issue.

[Irish_Lass]

Well done Kye and Rio! :) Sounds like they're good kids. Where is Rio's pics?!?!?!? :)

[Kkye]

Bah I know! Everyone's been giving me heck, I guess I should hop to it and get er done.

It's all a matter of time, really! I come home, feed the girls, make dinner, clean up and the rest of the evening is gone to the dogs, literally!

I'll try, asap. I have some really good ones, but none of them are even on the computer yet, and I want to make photobucket account to simplify things for this computer illiterate..er, me.

[devastated70]

I am planning on taking Ollie with me to my mom's this weekend and have been wondering/worrying about the cow thingy too. to my knowledge, he has never seen any cows and was hoping to be able to let him off his leash to run around on their land, but they have cows, and i'm worried he will go and chase them.. guess we will see how he acts on his leash first....

[Kkye]

You read the rest of the thread? There was really helpful things there for me.

I'd say try him on his leash first. It may not happen right away..if he's interested, he's interested, and you'll have to teach him to not be. That would mean praising every time he looks way or turns away, etc.

Hopefully he doesn't! Either way, it'll be him getting hurt or the cows if he does chase em.