Help - new dog obsessed with cat!

[Rdubs]

Hi everyone,
Until around Christmas, my wife and I had a 8 year old cat (male) and a 4 year standard poodle (male) and life was fine. My wife bought the poodle as a baby and so it grew up with the cat already dominant in the house, so the dog seemed to learn that the cat was there and no big deal. They pretty much ignored each other and life was grand.

Around Christmas, we bought a 15 month old poodle girl. My wife has always wanted a poodle girl and she wanted to get one that was older than a puppy because she thought it would already be 1) house trained and 2) socialized with other animals so it would be used to having other animals, such as our cat, around.

Dead wrong on both counts. We bought the poodle from a breeder who, although the breeder didn't have a lot of dogs, didn't pay attention to them either. From what we can gather the dog was pretty much ignored from birth until we got her. So instead of being used to cats, she's obsessed with smaller animals - namely, our cat. Sometimes when the cat isn't around or is sleeping she'll forget about the cat and act like a normal dog, but the slightest hint of a sound that could be the cat and it's a mad dash to find the kitty. She seems to like to find and either corner the cat or actually lick it, and since my wife had the cat declawed, the cat swiping at the dog only encourages her. Sometimes she'll nip at the cat, I don't think she means to hurt him but the cat probably doesn't know that. Especially when the cat jumps on something, she'll try to nip him mid-air. When the cat disappears she'll go back to being kind of normal, but the second she sees him or hears him (we even took his collar off to make him more stealthy but she still hears him rustling), the obsession takes firm hold and she'll break her leg trying to track down the kitty and play/lick/nip/corner him.

Needless to say the cat is pretty unhappy and has now taken to marking (spraying with pee) our furniture inside, and we think he does it even when the terror poodle beast is crated (which she is during the day). Even if we broke the obsession tomorrow I don't know how long we'd have to live with the marking, it may never end. The living room smells awful.

Anyway, I feel if we can figure out how to tone down the cat obsession things would get better. If nothing gets better, we will have to give the poodle girl away because it's not fair for the cat to live in fear the rest of its life, and giving her away would break our hearts because she is so sweet outside of the fixation.

We've tried correcting the dog by making a loud noise whenever she tries to make a move for the cat, and while it stops the immediate incident, it doesn't seem to do anything to break her of the obsession.

Any thoughts would be highly appreciated. We've had her three months and can't tell if it has gotten better or worse, it's just a mad obsession.

Thanks in advance for your time.

'Dubs

[special]

Hello and welcome to pet lovers!

Your kitty may be peeing on the furniture because he has a urinary tract infection. (UTI) Stress can cause infection in cats (it also causes kidney failure) and he certainly has had a lot of stress so I recommend a trip to the vet very soon for kitty.

As for training the dog, we have some very knowledgeable dog training people here who will be along to help with that, but do please take kitty to the vet.

Males can block suddenly and quickly when they have infections, and once blocked, they die within 24 hours.

I recommend blood work along with the urinalysis to make sure his kidneys are doing okay.

[Macawpower58]

I've the same problem, and it's not an easy fix. In fact, I've not been able to eradicate it from my boys. It's from a high prey drive. All of my dogs have been raised with my cat. Two of them have been obsessed by the cat. One calmed down after about 3 years, the other is now 3 years and still obsessed. My saving is that they are both obedient and will stop chasing and lie down when I say. But not for long. At least my cat is used to it and doesn't seem to terribly mind. She's just learned to walk under tables and along the furniture top. She will in fact instigate them at times.

I'm sorry I've no magic cure. My only suggestion is intense training to ignore kitty. Not allowed to approach the cat, not even look at it. It's very hard to stop prey drive. Hopefully someone else has had better luck with this problem than I.

[special]

I wouldn't have thought a poodle would have a prey drive like that, though?

[Macawpower58]

Special, poodles were originally bred as hunting dogs. Standard poodles especially haven't had the 'lap dog' persona focused on, so I imagine they still carry the drives they were bred for.

Truthfully any dog can have prey drive, or not have it. I've seen hunting dogs with none, and small mix breeds with an over abundance of it.

[special]

wow, I never knew that! Not that I am claiming to know much at all about dog breeds, but I never would have thought of a poodle, even a standard poodle, as a hunting dog!

I have had a bad experience with a standard poodle and cats so feel very sorry for the cat in this thread.

In fact the stress that the dog I am speaking of brought onto the cats caused acute kidney failure and I had to have them both euthanized within two weeks of each other. One cat was 21, the other was only 13. It was devastating and I will probably never get over it, nor forgive the people involved.

I am not normally an advocate for rehoming but after thinking about my experience and what you have said about prey drive, Becky, I vote for these people to find another home for the dog for the sake of their cat. Dog has been there only 3 months, Cat is 8 years old and deserves a peaceful life.

[Macawpower58]

I'm sorry you've seen the down side of prey drive. It can be controlled, but it's a difficult task. I have to admit, I've not really worked at it as hard as I could. I can never leave my one dog alone with my cat though, as he doesn't know when to stop.

I also have to say if the OP's cat is having a bad reaction to the constant stress, a rehome may be better. Some cats can handle it, others can't.

[Um Tootous]

I don't have a lot of experience with this, although Shabka (my dog) is a little kitty obessed, particularily with Daisy, who isn't as aggresive with the scratching and growling that Tootous is.

Anyway, what I've been is using a spray bottle to spray water on Shabka and a firm no when she is bothering Daisy. It doesn't hurt Shabka, it's just plain water, but she dislikes it enough she immediately stops. It has gotten to the point where all I do is shake the water bottle and Shabka stops and I think Shabka's interest in this activity is declinning. I've also been showing preferential treatment towards the cats in Shabka's presence as I read someplace that dogs need to know where their place is in the pack.

Of course, since Shabka stays outside all the time, and the kitties are allowed in the house there are long breaks when they are not in the same area. So maybe this helps the situation as well.

[Kkye]

remember, reward the behaviour you want. when your pup stops, praise.

i try to explain this to my boyfriend, but do you think he understands?
praise the action you want, which is not going after the cat.

[squashynose]

This dog has come from a breeder - has she been spayed? That could calm her down a bit.

It doesn't sound like she's aggressive towards the cat, so I wouldn't have thought it was prey drive (though I may be wrong). Sounds like you need to desensitize your dog to the cat.

I can think of two ways to do this...
1. Put the cat in a cage for 20-30 mins a couple of times a day, allowing the dog to be in the same room and see the cat, but not be able to get to it. She'll probably go a bit nuts to begin, circling the cage etc. Everytime she turns away from the cat, reward her.
2. Keep the dog on a leash in the house, and, again, let her see the cat, but not being able to get to it. When she calms down around it, reward.

Hopefully, eventually, she'll learn that being around the cat but not interacting with it, brings good things! The fact that she's not being aggressive is a good sign that eventually she'll get it.

As for the cat peeing... The poor cat, having to put up with this!! ;) Make sure s/he has somewhere safe to hide, where the dog can't get to. A closet or hidey spot on top of a cupboard or something. Maybe get a Feliway diffuser, to try to make the cat feel a bit more at ease, if that's possible!

[Macawpower58]

Chasing a ball, toy or frisbee are all offshoots of preydrive. Tearing that stuffed toy up, and prancing about shaking it is preydrive. Preydrive uncontrolled can get a dog in trouble (like with the cat), directed, it's the best training tool in the world.

[squashynose]

Just to be nosey... Can I ask why a breeder was rehoming a 15month old dog?

[Rdubs]

This dog has come from a breeder - has she been spayed? That could calm her down a bit.

It doesn't sound like she's aggressive towards the cat, so I wouldn't have thought it was prey drive (though I may be wrong). Sounds like you need to desensitize your dog to the cat.

I can think of two ways to do this...
1. Put the cat in a cage for 20-30 mins a couple of times a day, allowing the dog to be in the same room and see the cat, but not be able to get to it. She'll probably go a bit nuts to begin, circling the cage etc. Everytime she turns away from the cat, reward her.
2. Keep the dog on a leash in the house, and, again, let her see the cat, but not being able to get to it. When she calms down around it, reward.

Hopefully, eventually, she'll learn that being around the cat but not interacting with it, brings good things! The fact that she's not being aggressive is a good sign that eventually she'll get it.

As for the cat peeing... The poor cat, having to put up with this!! ;) Make sure s/he has somewhere safe to hide, where the dog can't get to. A closet or hidey spot on top of a cupboard or something. Maybe get a Feliway diffuser, to try to make the cat feel a bit more at ease, if that's possible!

Hi Squashy,
She has been spayed, about a month ago.

These are fantastic ideas, we've tried them piecemeal at times but never in a concerted effort. We will try to do them all at once. It will be interesting rewarding her for just sitting there ignoring kitty, I'm not sure how she'll make the connection that the reward is from ignoring kitty, but we'll do our best.

Please keep the good ideas and insight coming!

And about the breeder, normally she raised show dogs and her dogs have won all kinds of awards. I think the dogs she had were meant for show and due to economic times or just laziness a few were posted for sale (the older dogs there were not for sale). But mostly all the dogs were kept in a separate building in the back yard, I think our dog was treated more as a number than an obligation they needed to develop. The wife and I joke about our poodle girl being a "rescue show poodle" lol.

Nice to know she's got a good prey drive. The boy poodle doesn't have it near as much, if at all. I think "Poodle" comes from the German word "Poodlin" which means "loves water", apparently they used to be used for fetching birds that were shot down and fell in the water.

[Rdubs]

Hello and welcome to pet lovers!

Your kitty may be peeing on the furniture because he has a urinary tract infection. (UTI) Stress can cause infection in cats (it also causes kidney failure) and he certainly has had a lot of stress so I recommend a trip to the vet very soon for kitty.

As for training the dog, we have some very knowledgeable dog training people here who will be along to help with that, but do please take kitty to the vet.

Males can block suddenly and quickly when they have infections, and once blocked, they die within 24 hours.

I recommend blood work along with the urinalysis to make sure his kidneys are doing okay.

Hi Special,
Thank you for your concern re: kitty. We actually were afraid it may have been a UTI so took him in as soon as he started it. Had bloodwork done and everything turned out very normal, slightly elevated levels of something so we got him an antibody shot "just in case" and the marking didn't stop. The doctor said it most likely was stressed-induced marking, essentially the cat showing his displeasure with being under constant "attack" or stress.

But I don't think he's going to up and die unless it's from the poodle girl wanting to play with him....to death!

[squashynose]

These are fantastic ideas, we've tried them piecemeal at times but never in a concerted effort. We will try to do them all at once. It will be interesting rewarding her for just sitting there ignoring kitty, I'm not sure how she'll make the connection that the reward is from ignoring kitty, but we'll do our best.

Reward the moment she turns away from the cat. Also, if she's lying calmly, a gentle "good girl" just to reinforce that she is being good. Nothing too high pitched, you don't wanna set her off again!

Maybe, while she's in the same room, give her a bone or kong, something that'll keep her entertained for a while, so she sees there's better things to do than pester the cat.

Any chance of a photo of the naughty lass? ;)

[nanamouse]

About 21 years ago Liz started taking a really long route home from school, telling me about a "pit bull" that was terrorizing the kids. I took a day of vacation to walk her home and have a "friendly" talk with the owners if need be.

Not a pit, but a very territorial standard poodle on a very long chain. Two steps off the sidewalk would have put a kid in it's reach! No one was home, and a note on the door was out of the question, so I wrote the owners and it wasn't long before the dog was in the fenced in back yard. No idea why it wasn't before. Maybe they'd had a break in? :confused:

I'd never thought of a poodle as a real dog before, but a little research at the library proved they certainly were working dogs and well able to defend a home!

[Macawpower58]

Standard Poodles are actually quite a lot of dog! Nothing like the toys and miniatures you see all around.

[Rdubs]

Any chance of a photo of the naughty lass? ;)

See if this works! She's still growing out her ear hair, when we got her it wasn't very thick.

Notice, no cat around, so acting like normal dog.

[Macawpower58]

She's lovely. She looks too angelic to be chasing cats.

[Yogi]

I can understand your frustrations. In my case raising and rescuing terrier breeds ie Miniature Pinschers I have dealt with this a great deal over the years. I have been fortunate to have also bred and raised Manx cats. Fortunately for me my former breeding tom is not tolerant of dogs of any size with even the slightest of prey drive. He has literally attacked the dogs when they have gotten out of control to the point that the dogs now show no interest in the cats at all. Many cats that will run will only keep the problem going unless the dog is trained. Cats that do not run many times confuse the dog and if the cat actually retaliates, this will in most cases curb future action. I agree that the cat should be checked out for UTI just in case. Also, as the cat has not tried to correct the issue with the dog you may want to look into training. Good luck as I know what you are going through. Watching my tom the first time my 40lbs German Pinscher saw him as a toy and saw he end reaction of the German Pinscher running for his crate with the cat in pursuit definitely showed me that if a cat retaliates, it will work. German Pinschers also have a very strong prey drive but they also value their nose and face. My current brood have all come here after the cat. He is the dominant animal in the house and those dogs that had issues have all had to learn abruptly who he was. Hopefully your cat will express displeasure eventually and help correct the issue otherwise training will be the next step. Again, good luck.

[squashynose]

Watching my tom the first time my 40lbs German Pinscher saw him as a toy and saw he end reaction of the German Pinscher running for his crate with the cat in pursuit definitely showed me that if a cat retaliates, it will work.
Ollie (my terrier mix) sniffed the cat the first time he met him, the cat "retaliated", i.e. scratched his nose, and Ollie went mental. Had to be muzzled, always tried to kill him, and was that close. Ollie was PTS.

Hopefully your cat will express displeasure eventually and help correct the issue otherwise training will be the next step. Again, good luck.
I would try to avoid this if possible. You don't know how the dog will react if the cat ever does fight back, and it might just ruin it for good. She needs to know that the cat is a good thing, not bad/painful.

[FredsMom]

Not sure if tis been said, although there are a lot of great advice already given. Rather than add on, which would be redundant and of course, I dont have a cat so no experience with these issues (we have border collies, I dont think a cat would survive too long or be too happy since one of our dogs herds and the poor thing would probably be herded!! haha)

Anyway - Pick ONE method and stick to it. if you do too many different methods (one person using more than one, multiple people using different, etc) you'll confuse the dog.

The thing w/ dogs is, repetition is KEY. Good luck!

[Rdubs]

Cats that do not run many times confuse the dog and if the cat actually retaliates, this will in most cases curb future action.
....
Watching my tom the first time my 40lbs German Pinscher saw him as a toy and saw he end reaction of the German Pinscher running for his crate with the cat in pursuit definitely showed me that if a cat retaliates, it will work. German Pinschers also have a very strong prey drive but they also value their nose and face.

Apparently, my sweet little girl does not value her nose and face.

My wife's mother has a cat who is very not afraid of anything, has all claws, and is very vocal. You can hear that cat growl from across the house and she is not afraid to defend herself. So, a couple weeks ago we got the idea that if we brought the poodle girl over and let her spend some time with a kitty who is not afraid to fight back, it may teach her that small animals aren't just playthings. We made arrangements to leave her there a couple days for her to get a nice healthy fear in her of what an angry kitty can do. Plus this kitty owns the house and is not afraid to let others know who is boss.

At first, it looked like it was going to work. Poodle girl would come up to new kitty and want to play and new kitty growled and fought back, and sunk claws into poodle girl's nose and face. The Attack Poodle would pull back, but never run away, and after a little bit would try to get in close for more licks or whatever, thereby receiving another defensive strike. But she never said, OK I get it, let me go do something else. She would simply keep pressing to play until kitty ran somewhere where the dog could not get to her, and she'd camp out and trap the kitty.

What happened was, essentially Laura (poodle girl) broke the will of the cat to fight. The cat found it easier to try to avoid contact with the dog, even though it was the cat's house, the cat basically said forget the house this is too much trouble. Laura would even give chase with her nose bleeding from scratch marks. So when we got her back, it seemed for a while that her desire to find and play with our poor clawless kitty was even higher, we joked that she found out the small animals can fight back (which she saw as "play") and our cat was holding back on her!

We're going to try some of the ideas here. She's so sweet - whenever she's not got the cat cornered and fearing for its life. The other thing that's kind of funny is we can always tell when she makes visual contact with the cat, because her tail will start wagging a little, then wag harder when the cat looks back and sees her eyeing her. If the furniture didn't smell, it would be hilarious!

[special]

I'm sorry if this is taken wrong, and hope you understand where I am coming from, but I really feel sorry for this cat.

Since I lost two cats to the stress of living with an uncontrolled and untrained standard poodle, I see no humor in it.

I am not saying Laura is untrained or uncontrolled and I know you are trying to fix this.

But...it can be causing very serious internal damage to your 8 year old (very close to being considered a senior) cat. And if you are laughing, you are encouraging Laura, and perhaps causing emotional stress to kitty, too.

[Yogi]

Apparently, my sweet little girl does not value her nose and face.

My wife's mother has a cat who is very not afraid of anything, has all claws, and is very vocal. You can hear that cat growl from across the house and she is not afraid to defend herself. So, a couple weeks ago we got the idea that if we brought the poodle girl over and let her spend some time with a kitty who is not afraid to fight back, it may teach her that small animals aren't just playthings. We made arrangements to leave her there a couple days for her to get a nice healthy fear in her of what an angry kitty can do. Plus this kitty owns the house and is not afraid to let others know who is boss.

At first, it looked like it was going to work. Poodle girl would come up to new kitty and want to play and new kitty growled and fought back, and sunk claws into poodle girl's nose and face. The Attack Poodle would pull back, but never run away, and after a little bit would try to get in close for more licks or whatever, thereby receiving another defensive strike. But she never said, OK I get it, let me go do something else. She would simply keep pressing to play until kitty ran somewhere where the dog could not get to her, and she'd camp out and trap the kitty.

What happened was, essentially Laura (poodle girl) broke the will of the cat to fight. The cat found it easier to try to avoid contact with the dog, even though it was the cat's house, the cat basically said forget the house this is too much trouble. Laura would even give chase with her nose bleeding from scratch marks. So when we got her back, it seemed for a while that her desire to find and play with our poor clawless kitty was even higher, we joked that she found out the small animals can fight back (which she saw as "play") and our cat was holding back on her!

We're going to try some of the ideas here. She's so sweet - whenever she's not got the cat cornered and fearing for its life. The other thing that's kind of funny is we can always tell when she makes visual contact with the cat, because her tail will start wagging a little, then wag harder when the cat looks back and sees her eyeing her. If the furniture didn't smell, it would be hilarious!
I have heard of this happening. Here though it has not. One of my Miniature Pinscher rescues was a notorious cat chaser. When she came here she picked on the tom initially and he literally was attached to her back biting her ears. It took about a week of this before we figured she had enough until a scuffle between my queens broke out in the cattery. The dog ran to the door but before she knew it the cat had ahold of her again and when she was finally free was under the large bird cage where the cat was hovering and preventing her from coming out. She since has never gone after the cats where for nearly 10 years this had been a normal behavior. Tom's are generally more protective especially if there are queens in the house. Though I know longer breed Manx cats he has remained the boss though neutered, the new ones seem to sense that he in entitled to a wide birth. He also would get upset if the dogs were showing any aggression toward one another and on several occasions interceded and in a sense you could say he put his foot down. I think far too often people under estimate a cats ability to take care of itself. Introducing a new dog to a cat house can be difficult but for me it makes it easier in that I have 13 cats of which all but 1 is a Manx and when a new dog comes in, they are first introduced to the cats or I should say the cats as a pack introduce themselves to the new dog. A new dog in a strange environment surrounded by a pack of cats sniffing it can be in itself intimidating to just about any dog especially this many cats. It has worked well and has eliminated some of the issues that the dogs have come here with. With the others, the tom has dealt with it successfully. The joke here is if it comes down to the dog or cat, my monies on the cat. :)

[Yogi]

Ollie (my terrier mix) sniffed the cat the first time he met him, the cat "retaliated", i.e. scratched his nose, and Ollie went mental. Had to be muzzled, always tried to kill him, and was that close. Ollie was PTS.


I would try to avoid this if possible. You don't know how the dog will react if the cat ever does fight back, and it might just ruin it for good. She needs to know that the cat is a good thing, not bad/painful.

squashynose, I am sorry for your experience. It must be noted that though some of us have a great deal of experience with terriers, that be reminded that they are the only breeds of dogs created by man for the sole purpose of ferreting and killing other animals. In the case of Ollie you obviously had one that reflected the normal terrier trait which can come out with nothing more than just a sniff. Many assume that the terrier always bolts after prey but not always and the dogs reaction is indicative of most terriers and dogs in general sometimes. But to point out, these encounters happen whether you or I like it or not. This is why you test dogs before bringing them into a home where there is a cat or cats. Most of mine came here specifically to either find out how they would do with cats or to help eliminate the problem of seeing the cats as prey before they could be adopted out. The ones I kept were difficult learners but did come around. By that time they fit in well so they stayed. For those that do not have the experience raising multiple dogs and cats in the same house I always recommend that the two be first introduced to see if this will work since many times it does not. There are ways through training for a dog to relax this attitude but to note, this Poodle is still a puppy and will therefore act like one which is normal. A great deal of curiosity and play and anything it finds to amuse itself in its mind is play. But not at the expense of the cat as obviously the cat is going to be under stress until the problem is resolved.
It will come down to what is best for both and what steps to take to address it.

[squashynose]

squashynose, I am sorry for your experience. It must be noted that though some of us have a great deal of experience with terriers, that be reminded that they are the only breeds of dogs created by man for the sole purpose of ferreting and killing other animals. In the case of Ollie you obviously had one that reflected the normal terrier trait which can come out with nothing more than just a sniff. Many assume that the terrier always bolts after prey but not always and the dogs reaction is indicative of most terriers and dogs in general sometimes. But to point out, these encounters happen whether you or I like it or not. This is why you test dogs before bringing them into a home where there is a cat or cats. Most of mine came here specifically to either find out how they would do with cats or to help eliminate the problem of seeing the cats as prey before they could be adopted out. The ones I kept were difficult learners but did come around. By that time they fit in well so they stayed. For those that do not have the experience raising multiple dogs and cats in the same house I always recommend that the two be first introduced to see if this will work since many times it does not. There are ways through training for a dog to relax this attitude but to note, this Poodle is still a puppy and will therefore act like one which is normal. A great deal of curiosity and play and anything it finds to amuse itself in its mind is play. But not at the expense of the cat as obviously the cat is going to be under stress until the problem is resolved.
It will come down to what is best for both and what steps to take to address it.

Just for your information, we DID test him with cats beforehand, I aren't stupid enough to just let him loose. I knew he was bad, but I had NO CHOICE! He was gonna be PTS if I didn't try. He'd lived with a so-called behaviourist for 6 months, prior to me having him.

I consider myself well experienced with dogs, having worked at a shelter for over 4 years. I've brought round dog-aggressive and cat-aggressive dogs, but some you just can't change.

What training would you have recommended for me to use? At one point Oliver had the cat pinned in a corner, and he was bouncing off him with his muzzle on, trying to kill him. After that, the cat lived on top of the kitchen cupboards, only coming down during the night.
Please note, this dog was also people-aggressive, having previously bitten someone's finger OFF.

[Yogi]

I have found much of this to work in the past. As stated, I no longer need to do this but much of this has been somewhat accepted technique with bringing a new animal especially a new dog into a home with an existing cat.
http://www.ehow.com/video_2068699_keep-dogs-cats-fighting.html
In your case it sounds like it may have been somewhat of a hit and miss issue from the beginning. I think it is great that at least you were willing to try. I have 2 that were to be put down due to aggression issues. It has taken me some serious time (over a year) to get the 2 to the point that they are not as easily prone to aggression. They will probably always carry a small amount in them but have come around but it was not easy by any stretch and took a great deal of patience. Unlike yourself, many would have just given up. At least you tried. It is unfortunate that it had to be a terrier. These to me are and always will be the toughest breeds when it comes to curbing interaction and aggression toward cats.