Sick kitty...trouble with treatment

[sambisu]

My 15 year old cat was recently diagnosed with kidney failure, hyperthyroidism and a urinary tract infection. So now I have to give her 2 pills twice daily (total of 4 pills per day), fluids under her skin via an IV twice per week and special canned food.

She has been becoming increasingly difficult with both the pills and fluids. She has figured out how to flick the pills out of her mouth and she is constantly trying to run away while receiving the fluids. At this point she is only getting maybe half of the pills she is supposed to because she flicks them out of her mouth and they end up getting all soggy and impossible to give her. I am not a trained animal tech...I don't know how much longer I can do these at home treatments for, but I also can't afford to take her to the vet twice a week for the fluids and certainly not every day for pills (I was laid off from my job a few months ago, so money is very tight right now...I can barely afford the current tests and treatment).

It seems that my only options here are going broke taking her to the vet every time she needs something, just letting her health deteriorate, or putting her down (which doesn't seem to make sense since she seems to be feeling okay and I would only really want to put an animal down if they were suffering).

I really don't know what to do. :( :confused:

[special]

hello and welcome.

Take a deep breath and don't panic. I can help you, as I also have a CRF kitty who takes multiple pills a day and gets sub q four times a week.

[special]

Okay, hit the trigger too fast, haha

What antibiotic is she on? some are very bad tasting. Putting the pills in a plain gel capsule will prevent her from tasting the pills. This is also helpful for multiple pills. Put them both in the capsule and your pilling sessions are cut in half.

How to pill:

have everything ready. use something soft she likes, like a dot of yogurt (this will also offset any digestive upset from the antibiotic) get a bowl and put the pill and the bit of yogurt in it.

kneel on the floor with your feet crossed behind you, place kitty (what's her name?) between your knees facing out. this way when she tries to back away she will have nowhere to go.

hold pill in one hand, pry open mouth with other, poke pill in, toward side of mouth and as far back as you can. while still holding her with left hand, reach for yogurt and put a dot on her nose., She will lick off the yogurt and swallow, pill and all.

I make it sound easier than it is, at first. but once you master this method you'll be able to pill any cat, any time. I know I can!:)

[LuvPets]

I'm so sorry to hear about your frustration in dealing with your kitty's health issues. I know it can seem overwhelming sometimes. I had a CRF (chronic renal failure) kitty years ago, I had to give her fluids 2X per day. I would find pills that she had spit out sometimes in a corner all dried out. I have a feral cat now who dives under the bed many times when he knows its time for his supplement or shot. When he had to have a shot twice daily (he's diabetic but no longer insulin dependent) I sealed off the space at the bottom of the bed so he couldn't get to it. That made it much easier for me and less stress for both of us.

When I gave my cat her fluids, I gave them to her in a comfy spot and sat with her while the IV ran. She would try to run away at first. But after awhile she resigned herself to it, maybe because she had to have it done daily. Also, the more you do it the easier it will become. After awhile it will be familiar, a part of your routine. When I first started giving her fluids I had to towel her. Then I was able to hold her, then eventually she would stay on her own but I had to be nearby. If I got distracted or walked away she would try to bolt. It may help to just sneak up on her where she is or maybe close her in a room when its time for the fluids. If you speak to her gently and make it as pleasant for her as possible that may help. Maybe a comfy bed or blanket on a chair with a nice view? I had a chair in my bedroom for my cat and had the fluids hanging above. I put all the things I needed on a washcloth on the back of the chair before I started - change of needle, cotton ball moistened with rubbing alcohol, a dry cotton ball to wipe the injection site after, so it was all at my fingertips and I wouldn't have to be struggling to reach for those things and position the cat.

The way I've pilled my cats is I open their mouth with one hand, pop the pill in with the other hand and push it gently down the back of the throat just past the tongue. Then I hold the mouth shut til they swallow. There are pilling devices you can buy that aren't too much money but I found this easier. I had one of those and it was hard to control. Maybe they've perfected them since then. Some cats take pilling better than others. You may have to towel your kitty for that as well. You can put the cat on a surface waist high or kneel down or hold her in your lap, whatever works best. You may want to try a couple different methods to see what works best. I know, pilling cats is no fun!

As far as taking your cat to the vet for fluids, I think in the long run it will be less stress on kitty and you to just do it at home. And less money since they will charge you for the service. Once you get used to doing these things, it will be second nature to you. I much prefer to administer those kinds of treatments at home. I know it seems like alot, your kitty has some challenges but her conditions are definitely manageable although they don't seem like it right now.

Please hang in there - it will get better! Feel free to ask any questions here, and keep us posted on your progress. Also, it would be so nice to see a picture of your kitty cat. We love pics here! :)

[special]

I admit, this takes time and practice. When I first started giving sub q I was a basket case every sub q day. My stress would start as soon as I woke up and rise all day until it was time to do it.

It is important that kitty learn that regardless of her struggles this is going to happen. Of course you don't want her to hurt herself, but be firm and don't release her if at all possible.

Every day, whether it's a sub q day or not, at the same time you will be giving the sub q, hold her on your lap with a soft blanket under her (and for wrapping her if needed) speak to her calmly, tell her what is happening and why, and feel the back of her neck, her scruff, where the needle goes.

Get a feel for how to pull it up to form the tent, where the needle goes.

Doing it every day will teach her that this is going to happen every day, but also she will learn that sometimes it won't be a needle, it is just bonding time.

always give a treat after.

On fluid days:

Warm the bag of fluids in a pan of warm water. put the needle on before you get kitty. I loosen the needle cap and tape it in place. My hands don't always work well and I don't want to be struggling to uncap the needle while kitty is waiting.

Hang the bag where you can easily see the numbers, bag must be higher than cat. Run the fluids over your inner arm to check temp. It's should feel barely warm on your skin.

Close the flow again. Get kitty and arrange her comfortably in your lap, on the soft blankie. If she tries to run, wrap her in the blankie. Stay calm. If you are stressed she will be stressed.

Pet her for a minute while feeling the area where you are going to poke.

Be ready for the jump when you poke. Once she gets used to the feeling she will be more likely to be still at that moment.

If you think it will help, give her something yummy to occupy her while you insert the needle.

While running the fluids keep talking to her, tell her how wonderful and brave she is. Tell her how this is helping her. After a few weeks, she will begin to make the connection between feeling better, and getting sub q.

Massage, or rub, or lift the skin at the area where the fluids pouch is forming to help the fluids disperse. The skin will get tight and it makes it a little uncomfortable for kitty. Helping it disperse as it flows keeps her more comfortable and helps the flow continue at a good pace.

When it's over, release her and give her a treat right away.

It all takes practice, but as time goes on you will develop more confidence in your skills, both with medicating and giving the sub q. the more confidence you have, the more easily she will accept these things.

I am not a vet tech. I just happen to have been blessed with many special needs cats.

You can do this, and she will learn to accept it as part of her life after a while.

The daily cuddle as described above is important so she knows that not every single time you reach for her something bad is going to happen.

You may feel like a "bad mommie" and that she is always running from you and hates you, but she doesn't and she WILL get used to it all.

My 18 year old kitty not only has CRF and hyperthyroid, she also has megacolon, high blood pressure, stroke, heart murmur and arthritis. She takes medicines 7 or 8 times a day in addition to her sub q four times a week.

She does also occasionally get a UTI.

Needle tips: the smaller the needle, the less she will feel it, but the flow will also be slower. A lot depends on how much she is getting.

I use an #18 needle. It's larger, and she feels the poke. but she's getting 150 ml at a time and the smaller needle (#21) is just too slow, she will not sit that long. with the #18 it takes 5 minutes to give 150 ml.

[special]

Ask your vet to write prescriptions for the sub q supplies. I save hundreds of dollars a month by buying the lactated ringers, needles and IV sets at my local pharmacy rahter than at the vet.

Check with the pharmacy first to be sure they will get them in for you.

At the vet a 2000 ml bag of fluids is $17 a bag. I get a case, 12 bags, for $22 at the pharmacy. There is a smaller savings on the needles and tubing, but every penny counts.

[special]

here is an excellent website that I found invaluable when I first started dealing with CRF

http://www.felinecrf.com/

[sambisu]

Thanks for all the feedback!

Her name is Jasmine. Here are a couple pictures.

[sambisu]

And here is her with our bunny

[special]

ooooh, what a pretty tortie Jasmine is! Bun is lovely too, what's bunny's name?

[sambisu]

The meds she is currently taking are Methimazole 5mg and Baytril 22.7mg

If I wanted to do the capsule thing, do they sell empty capsules at the pharmacy?

[special]

Baytril is notoriously bitter.

You can ask at your pharmacy, you may need a prescription from your vet for the local pharmacy, if they ahve them

They are also available on line. I can come up with some links for you.

I get mine from a mail order pharmacy who compounds my kitty's special cisapride pills.

[sambisu]

The bunny's name is...uhhh...Bun Bun. He is a miniature rex. Yea I know its not real creative. But I have a history of uncreative names. I had a turtle when I was younger named Swimmy (he was a swimming turtle) and a when I was really young I had a white teddy bear named White Teddy and a brown teddy bear named Brown Teddy.

[sambisu]

My vet had also mentioned something about a place around here that can turn the pills into a gel that you can then rub in the cat's ear. Anyone have any experience with anything like that?

[special]

http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/gelcaps.htm#vendors

[special]

My vet had also mentioned something about a place around here that can turn the pills into a gel that you can then rub in the cat's ear. Anyone have any experience with anything like that?

yes. It comes in a little pen. the doses are measured by turning the little dosage clicker on the bottom, then the sponge applicator is rubbed in the cats inner, UPPER ear.

My senior lady is unable to take the methimazole. We tried liquid, pills and the transdermal method. they all made her sick. Most cats are not so sensitive to it.

The transdermal pen is a life safer for cats who won't be pilled, or people who cannot give the pills. the difficulty is in making sure ALL the medication is absorbed every time.

And kitty still has to stay still as the stuff is rubbed in.

I can medicate my girl fine, but because the liquid and pills made her so sick we decided to try the transdermal pen. that not only made her sick, it also gave her ulcers in her ears. but many other cats have done just fine with it.

It's very expensive, though.

[special]

My vet had also mentioned something about a place around here that can turn the pills into a gel that you can then rub in the cat's ear. Anyone have any experience with anything like that?

by the way, the pharmacy that compounds the transdermal methimazole may also have the capsules.

[special]

The bunny's name is...uhhh...Bun Bun. He is a miniature rex. Yea I know its not real creative. But I have a history of uncreative names. I had a turtle when I was younger named Swimmy (he was a swimming turtle) and a when I was really young I had a white teddy bear named White Teddy and a brown teddy bear named Brown Teddy.

I think BunBun is a great name for a bunny! And Swimmy for a turtle is perfect. Personally I think pets usually let us know what their names are. You may THINK the idea came from your own head, but Bun Bun and Swimmy and Jasmine most likely put the names in you head first.

Can't speak for the stuffed animals though. hehe.

[sambisu]

Thanks so much for all the advice. Not sure exactly what method I will use. If it is the Baytril that she is not liking, I may just try to tough it out with the current pilling method since that is just the antibiotic for the UTI and she is almost done with it. Then maybe once she is done with that she will stop being so difficult.

Bun Bun's original name was Mr. Bun Bun, but then the vet told us he was a girl so we just changed it to Bun Bun only to later find out that vet was wrong and he is in fact a boy. But he just remained Bun Bun anyway. And as difficult as it is giving pills and fluids to the cat its no where near as bad as when we had to give medicine to the bunny. He is not a bunny that likes to be picked up and for two weeks we had to force feed him liquid medicine...it was a horrible two weeks.

[special]

Thanks so much for all the advice. Not sure exactly what method I will use. If it is the Baytril that she is not liking, I may just try to tough it out with the current pilling method since that is just the antibiotic for the UTI and she is almost done with it. Then maybe once she is done with that she will stop being so difficult.

Bun Bun's original name was Mr. Bun Bun, but then the vet told us he was a girl so we just changed it to Bun Bun only to later find out that vet was wrong and he is in fact a boy. But he just remained Bun Bun anyway. And as difficult as it is giving pills and fluids to the cat its no where near as bad as when we had to give medicine to the bunny. He is not a bunny that likes to be picked up and for two weeks we had to force feed him liquid medicine...it was a horrible two weeks.

You're Welcome!

Poor Bun Bun. but it goes to show that you can do it. Jasmine may give you some cattidue, she's a tortie after all. but she will adjust to the meds and fluids.

My kitty has been in CRF for 3 years now. Since she can't take the methimazole OR the high blood pressure meds (makes her faint) her danger of another stroke is high (she's had 2 strokes)

she only weighs four pounds, her appetite is okay most of the time, but because of the hyperthyroid uncontrolled she will never gain any weight.

I am fortunate that my work allows me to stop in and check on her frequently throughout my day.

Please keep us updated on Jasmine and how it's all going for you.

[LuvPets]

Thanks for posting the pics - the tortie cat is so pretty. The bunny is adorable too.
You've gotten lots of great info from special, sounds like you're feeling better already. :)

[sambisu]

Yes I am feeling a bit better about this. I was getting really stressed out this morning after not being able to get her to take her pills. I was able to give her the fluids today no problem though and will be making another attempt at this pills in a few minutes. I will keep you all updated on Jasmine's progress. I will be going back to the vet to have tests run again next week to see if the treatments are working. She hasn't vomited at all in the last week though, so I think she is at least feeling better (she had been vomiting on almost a daily basis before I took her to the vet).

LuvPets - you have some very pretty cats too...and I love the color of that bird.

[special]

Oh I'm so glad the fluids are going better. You probably know that kidney disease is not curable, but can be maintained for a long time, years, even.

Your vet will explain to you (if haven't already) that it's a delicate balance when dealing with both hyperthyroid and CRF. The kidneys need some thyroidal activity to function at their best, but of course you can't have the thyroid spiraling out of control, because then she will just keep losing weight down to nothing. Not to mention the stroke factor.

Other things to watch out for: constipation is common in our kidney disease kitties so keep an eye on her litter box habits.

When it's time for a sub q session always check to be sure there is no fluid pouch remaining (check chest and "armpits")from the last session.

Try to vary the location you poke the needle to avoid callous (scar tissue) building up. Scar tissue makes it tough to get the needle inserted.

Nausea is common also, and can be helped with pepcid ac. usually 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet once a day is given, if needed. Don't give without asking the vet first, of course.

I keep a little journal and when I go to the vet have all my questions and concerns written down so I don't forget anything. I write down the answers, so I have a reference sheet for later.

I also record how much she eats, when, and her bms and such too, this way I can keep track of things, without guess work.

Hope you can get the complete course of baytril into her, it's so important to clear up that UTI now. Will the vet do another urinalysis to check for any bacteria, when Jasmine gets her next blood work?

Please keep us updated!:)

[RoxyGirl]

That's great news that Jasmine is feeling better!

Giving her pills should become easier with time, especially with all the great advice others have given you. I'm sorry, I wouldn't have any other tips, i have never really had trouble pilling Freklz.

I hope all the test will come back with good news. Please keep us updated!

BTW, Jasmine is just gorgeous!

[tiffers]

I don't really have much to add to what Special has already said, but you can (if you have help) squeeze the bag of fluids to make the whole process go faster. While you're checking the temperature of the fluids on your arm, make sure that there is no air in the line. Let the fluids run until all the air is out and you have a solid fluid stream.

[special]

I don't really have much to add to what Special has already said, but you can (if you have help) squeeze the bag of fluids to make the whole process go faster. While you're checking the temperature of the fluids on your arm, make sure that there is no air in the line. Let the fluids run until all the air is out and you have a solid fluid stream.

Squeeze the bag eh? Now there's something I didn't know. Of course, I can't reach the bag to squeeze it, but as you say, if there are two people...ah well it only takes 5 minutes for 150 ml.

Thanks for mentioning the air bubbles. I forgot that part.

[tiffers]

We always squeeze the bag, it goes sooo much faster. Now, there are some cats who are totally opposed to the faster fluids but will do fine for the regular drip. If you are squeezing the bag, the bag and cat can be level...the bag doesn't have to be hanging either.

[e1beth1]

We always squeeze the bag, it goes sooo much faster. Now, there are some cats who are totally opposed to the faster fluids but will do fine for the regular drip. If you are squeezing the bag, the bag and cat can be level...the bag doesn't have to be hanging either.

We bag squeeze too when we're giving subq through IV. It makes the process so much faster and the kitty much less aggitated.

[special]

Well my CRF kitty seems to manage okay with the five minutes four times a week. She made the connection between feeling better and the fluids by about the third or fourth week.

The other two were fine, too, at times I've had to do them. So I won't bother with it, but it's good to know, in case I ever have a kitty who won't sit for the five minutes..

It's quite convenient, actually, having the supplies here. Three times now in the past 3 years I've had an ill cat who needed some sub q to stave off dehydration, and since I have the supplies and know when it's needed I can do it, without having to take the sick kitty in to the vet.

I am always in contact with my vet during episodes like that And I would never hesitate to take my cat in to the vet if I felt he or she was in urgent need.

I've sub q'd a couple of my mother's cats too.

And I also give sub q shots, and can and have administered a feline enema.

And I know I'm sounding braggy, but I haven't met a cat yet whom I can't pill. And there've been some challenges...usually other people's cats. But when I shot a pill down Lovey cat's throat the other night, and wow I would never have believed it could be done, I decided I was getting pretty skilled with all the practice!

They are all handy skills to have and it's a good feeling to know I have them.

I guess that's the silver lining to the work of having special needs cats!:)

(now how on earth did I get on all that?)

[e1beth1]

I don't use IV bags when I've giving subq fluids to small kittens (anything under 3lbs), it's easier for me to use a 20cc syringe then mess with the tubing when they're that small. We've gotten mini fluid bags in which are nice too, no more big long bag for little kitties.

[special]

I don't use IV bags when I've giving subq fluids to small kittens (anything under 3lbs), it's easier for me to use a 20cc syringe then mess with the tubing when they're that small. We've gotten mini fluid bags in which are nice too, no more big long bag for little kitties.

How interesting! I never thought of something so tiny as an infant kitten getting fluids, but of course in your work, you would see that and do that. Is that how much they get, 20 ccs?

I am always so proud to know you Beth because of your foster work. I could never do it.

[e1beth1]

Well, how much you give depends on how sick they are. I don't like to give more than
40ccs at a time to little kittens, I'd rather do smaller amounts more frequently. Others in our rescue will do 60ccs at a time. My hands are in bad shape from running proof work (ten key smashing) for 6 years so it's hard for me to handle the bag and tube, even with help.

[tiffers]

Special, we've given SubQ fluids to my rat a few times. :D Even a 20cc syringe is too big for them. For things small than a pound we usually use 3cc or 6cc syringes. Much easier to handle.

As far as bags, we have the 500ml, 1000ml, and the 10000ml. The 10000ml bags are like little water pillows! They're huge!

[sambisu]

Just got back from the vet...

We got the UTI cleared up, so no more Baytril. She did lose some weight though, which is the opposite of what we wanted. Will be going back in a few weeks to check her thyroid again.