housebreaking

[Kkye]

okay so i have a little issue here with my new girl..

i got her from the shelter last friday (a week ago) and she's great, but she pees in the house. the part i don't understand is that she won't pee in her little bedroom or in the garage, and she holds it until i get home to take her out of her dogrun..so then why does she pee in the house and not anywhere else? is it a dominance thing? she's about three months old and a collie/lab/rotti mix.

any suggestions would be most welcome.

[Kkye]

and when i take her out she doesn't go half the time and then ten minutes after we're inside there's a flood.

forgot to mention that above. thanks guys.

[squashynose]

Dogs tend not to pee/poop where they sleep or eat. If she's spending most of her time in the garage or in her run, she'll be seeing these areas as her place, and she wont wanna pee there, but in the house is okay.

[lindsayanng]

first off, MOST dogs do not have full control over their bladders until they are 4-6 months.. USUALLY they could have full control by 6 months and THAT is when you should have a fully housetrained dog (if you started as soon as possible)

Also, you have only had her for a WEEK! She has not lived in your hosue long enough to know the rules.. So she has her OWN rules right now.

Dogs will NOT poo and pee where they sleep/eat. That is the reason she doesnt pee in her bedroom, and i'm not sure about the garage, but does she sleep or eat in there sometimes?

Its not a dominence thing, its a puppy thing. ALL puppies pee in the house, and you have at least another month of peeing in the house .

When you take her out, what do you do? Do you TELL her to go potty outside? WHen she does go, do you give her a treat?

Positive reinforcement is the best way to train her.. Everytime she goes potty outside, you throw a HUGE party for her.. Say how good she is and pet her and give her a treat INSTANTLY.. Also, when you bring her outside for potty, you go outside, say GO POTTY or LETS GO POTTY or something that you are comfortable saying everytime you go out. Say it a few times and if she starts going say it WHILE she is a going, and then again when you give her the treat.. You can say GOOD GO POTTY! or GOOD POTTY! while giving her the treat..

Is she has an accident inside and you SEE her going, you can yell NO! of use a can filled with pennies to distract her. She will stop MID PEE, you then scoop her up an dbring her outside and let her finish.. Dogs WILL stop peeing when you pick them up.. I PROMISE! I have never gotten peed on by a dog when i picked them up.

Then when she finishes going outside, you throw a party and give her a treat WHILE SAYING GO POTTY..

Then you bring her back inside and you can have her watch you clean up.

I found that my mom's puppy (who was a nightmare to housetrain) felt VERY bad watching someone clean up her mess. I think it helped in her training..

NEVER RUB THEIR NOSE IN IT OR PUNISH THE DOG FOR AN ACCIDENT.. its called an accident because they didnt MEAN to do it.

You also have to be VERY VERY intune with your dog's signs. Once she realizes that you WANT her to go potty outside, she will do something to try and get your attention, but she will NOT do a big dancing production.. She might walk up to the door and whimper once and if you dont hear it, she will walk away and probably have an accident.. you HAVE to be watching her all the time.

baby gates help with keeping her confined to one room while having lots of freedom.

[squashynose]

She'll be living outside soon wont she?

[Kkye]

soonish, she's outside during the day and she sleeps in her bedroom at night..she's not going to be sleeping outside until springtime..

she's in the house more than she is in any other place. it's always right beside her bed which is beside the coffee table. although she totally held it this weekend, we had no accidents for three days! i ask her if she has to go pee, and she gives me this look, and out she goes.

i've been reluctant to train my dog with treats. we've taught her to sit and lay down using hand signals, and lots and lots of praise. it seems to work very well. my boyfriend is experienced in owning and training puppies and apparently they never used food as a reward, just praise, and it's working well with Kye.

i don't push her face in it, but when she goes i yell at her to stop, then i put her face near it and let her smell it and say NO and take her outside to finish. she seems to get the idea that peeing in the house is not acceptable. and about expecting her to be peeing in the house for the next month, that's absolutely unacceptable. if she can hold it from the time she goes into her dogrun outside until i get home at lunch, and then from 1 until closer to 5, she can hold it in the house. she demonstrates very reasonable bladder control, and if she can hold it when she's outside then she can hold it when she's inside, correct?

she's learning. i was just wondering why she pees in the house when she's in there all the time and not anywhere else. but i think we got it covered.

thanks guys.

[lindsayanng]

heres the thing.. you cant REALLY have a dog that lives MOST of their lives outside and only comes in once and a while that is completely housetrained. Its just not going to happe n because they will not have the consistent training.. Sometimes dogs need to be reminded of the rules, and if you have her living entirely outside for spring and summer, you will probably be starting over again in the winter

Dont put her face NEAR it.. that the same is putting her face in it. You are holding her against her will, breaking her spirits and making her fear you . You do NOT want that..

I think you are approaching the whole idea of dog ownership a little skewed. You should decide if she is going to be an integral part of the family/ house dog, or a working dog that lives outside.. you can rarely have both.. unless you have a working dog that also lives inside. There are lots of those..

Why cant she just live inside?

[Kkye]

okay let me make something clear here.

i did NOT join this site to be TOLD how to RAISE my DOG. i JOINED so i could ask QUESTIONS and i EXPECT POLITE ANSWERS, please and thanks in ADVANCE. i appreciate your comments but please, tone it down because people take it the wrong way, and this isn't the first time nor am i the first person.

your remark "i think you're approaching the whole idea of dog ownership a little skewed" is out of line and a little offensive. HOW do YOU know what MY idea of dog ownership is? and who are you to say it's "skewed"? what, the fact that she goes out and comes in, too? SHE'S NOT GOING TO LIVE INSIDE BECAUSE SHE IS A DOG. she comes in to hang out and be with us. she goes out because she's a dog and we can't keep a constant eye on her. she comes in to eat and sleep. she comes in because i want to be around her and she wants to be around me and i'm not going to sit outside all night and keep her company.

i asked for advice. i did NOT ask for a crash course in dog ownership, nor did i ask for your opinion on the way i do things.

next thing you're going to tell me is that i don't deserve to have a dog, that i should give her away to someone who's going to do whatever it is in your opinion that entails good dog ownership. i may not do everything right. and i may not do things to your standards but you know, i'm going to do things as i would like to do them.

[lindsayanng]

tone what down? I gave you an answer that you didnt like and you READ a tone, you cant type in a tone.

The answer to you question is what i gave you. You can not housebreak a dog and then put it outside and bring it in again in the winter and expect her to remain house broken.

I know what you idea of dog ownership by your answers and comments. The fact that you want a dog to live inside in the winter and live its life outside in the summer AND you expect that dog to be housetrained is SKEWED. Do you know what the word SKEWEN means? I didnt call you a dog hater or a bad person. I did not personally attack you in ANY way. I GAVE YOU AN ANSWER but it wasnt the one you wanted so you took offense.. And usually people who take THAT much know that what they are doing isnt the best idea..

SHE IS A DOG.. She deserves a home as a member of the family.. She also deserves the understanding that she IS a dog and needs certain training and consistency. There is NO WAY you can maintain the consistency in training if you give her two completely different life styles depending on time of year.

Im not GIVING you a crash course in ownership. I AM TELLING YOU THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HOUSETRAIN A DOG THAT WILL LIVE HALF OF ITS LIFE OUTSIDE IN A KENNEL! That type of thing will not make sense to her.

Let me explain it MORE to you.

A dog needs to be housetrained. Its not an innate behavior. Its not pre-programmed. That means that you need to teach the dog that the ENTIRE house/living space is not to be used as a potty. So you work really hard for USUALLY 3-4 months trying to instill this in your dog. So after 3-4 months, the dog finally starts to get it and understands that they are not allowed to potty in their living space..

THEN, at the very end of the 3-4 months, you put her outside in a kennel were there are no consequences for pottying in her living space and she just continues to do it because there is no other options. There will be no one there to ask to let her out of her kennel (Her new living space) so she just goes in there. NOW, this means that IT IS ENTIRELY OK FOR HER TO POTTY IN HER LIVING SPACE.

Then in another 3-4 months, after that idea of pottying in her living space has again solidified in her mind, you will bring her into the house EXPECTING that she be housebroken, but she wont. She wont because she just spent 3-4 months outside pottying in her kennel (living space) so she will be VERY confused again when you yell at her for pottying in her NEW living space.. So you will spend ANOTHER 3-4 months training her out of it JUST to put her BACK OUTSIDE

Tell me that is not the most SKEWED idea on the planet??

And you tell me.. WHY IS IT OK FOR HER TO LIVE INSIDE ONLY IN THE WINTER AND NOT IN THE WARMER MONTHS? If your answer is simply convinience, then in my opinion, you should NOT own a dog, because you dont do things like that you of convenience.

So you do things as you would like yourself to do them?? So you would be ok if someone just locked you up in the winter because its took expensive to buy you christmas presents so they would just rather not see you during that season.. Maybe your locked up in a room with a flat screen tv, video games, food, AC and heat.. but would you be happy with that for 3-4 months??

[Macawpower58]

I can't offer any advice that hasn't already been given. Most of it's right on.

Lindsay, have you never heard honey attracts more bees than vinegar?

When we have a fairly new member, and you (or anyone) disagrees with their thoughts and attitudes on pet ownership, it makes more sense to woo them with kind words, rather than bash them over the head with a branch!

You may never get them to come around to your way of thinking, but you'll have a much better chance if you use diplomacy, forbearance and kindness, instead of anger, arrogance, and intolerance.

[lindsayanng]

The thing is, i was not trying to tell them that owning a dog that lives outside is wrong, i am not going to debate that fact. The issue here is that the OP took offense to my use of the word SKEWED which is ridiculous if you look up that word. I means that he has a somewhat misunderstand about what he can do with his dog. I then went on to explain WHY his ideals are skewed and thats it.

I'm sorry, but i am NOT trying to tell you that you cant leave your dog outside, i am trying to tell you that you can not expect a housetrained dog to remain housetrained after living outside for half of a year every year. That is a fact and that is all i have been saying from day one. I have said nothing about my opinions on leaving a dog outside.

I did leave my opnions out of this one. The OP got offended, thats not my fault this time.

[Macawpower58]

Every one of my (living outside) sledding dogs were housebroken.

I do admit, I'd not have trusted them alone indoors with me away though.

[Kkye]

oh my goodness, this really is ridiculous. and for the record, i'm a "she"

the things i said weren't in offence, i had a position i wanted to make clear. and yes, i understand the meaning of the word "skewed". i even looked it up to make sure i knew what i was talking about.

let me address things in order:

i did not ask how to make her stop, i asked why she did it. the answer "because she's a puppy" would have been sufficient. i use the word "did" because we haven't had a problem since thursday. she seemed to figure it out. she does spend the majority of her time in the house as it is.

i do not want her to live inside in the winter and outside in summer. do you really think that i ONLY let her inside because it's cold? the only differences there between summer and winter is that she can sleep outside in summer. things aren't going to change just because it's either warm or cold. or is it unethical to let my dog sleep outside when it's warm out? she loves it out there. she's going to be with me whenever possible.

she does have a home as a member of the family. what makes you think that she does not? her lifestyle isn't going to change from season to season. outdoor activities maybe, but seriously, i'm not as heartless and you make me out to be.

i feel like i'm trying to justify my actions to you.

i got her a kennel (a chainlink dog run) so i can ensure her safety. i do work, and i can't be around her always. it's either go in the kennel or run free and get run over. although i suppose i can lock her in a bedroom with a baby gate, but i'm sure she'd rather be outside with the birds and the cats and the sunshine. my cats live outside full time, all winter and all summer. they have a super cathouse with insulation and shingles and everything, and so does Kye. or i can just quit my job and dedicate my life to babying her.

she's over three months now. are you saying that i should only expect her to be housetrained when she's 7 or 8 months? funny, because it's been almost a week since the last time she peed in the house. she lets me know when she has to go, and if i don't hear her at the door she sniffs the floor and walks around in circles and THEN i let her out, no problem. she pees and comes right back in for some lovin'. and in light of that, i think she was housebroken before i even got her, she just needed to be reminded of the rules.

as of now, she's outside most of the day, and there are no yellow spots in the snow, and i know for a fact that she holds it until i let her out at lunch when i'm home and again after work when i get there. is that not okay? if she really has to go, i imagine she will. otherwise, she holds it.

just because it's summer does not mean she has to stay outside ALWAYS. as mentioned above, she's going to be in the house with us the same amount as in the winter, but at night she'll sleep outside in the beautiful air rather than inside.

convenience has nothing to do with anything. if life was as convenient as i would like it to be, well, for starters, there wouldn't be people on power trips sitting in chatrooms all day. let me repeat myself for like the third time: SHE'S GOING TO BE INSIDE WITH US AS MUCH IN SUMMER AS IN WINTER, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THAT IT'S TOO COLD TO BE OUTSIDE ALL NIGHT IN WINTER.

maybe i should also mention that i'm in alberta, and that i grew up in b.c., and that this is farm country. you should hear the things people have to say about letting my dog inside. most EVERYONE leaves their dogs outside always, even in 40 below. that's pushing it as far as i'm concerned, and i would never put my baby out in that weather, but the fact remains. this is farm country.

[Kkye]

what's the golden rule? treat others how you would like to be treated!

[MandyPug]

maybe i should also mention that i'm in alberta, and that i grew up in b.c., and that this is farm country. you should hear the things people have to say about letting my dog inside. most EVERYONE leaves their dogs outside always, even in 40 below. that's pushing it as far as i'm concerned, and i would never put my baby out in that weather, but the fact remains. this is farm country.

Okay, this just hit me the wrong way... I live in Alberta too, and yes there are lots of farmers who think their dogs are livestock and they're banished to the outdoors. However just because they do it, doesn't make it justified. If everyone got into the trend of leaving their children outside all year round would the fact that everyone does it make it right? NO! You're asking us why we're getting so irritated at the fact you want to leave your dog outside most of the time, but you don't realize that most of us here see our dogs as our children NOT AS "JUST A DOG". The people you are talking to here let their dogs sleep inside, sleep on our beds WITH US, we feed the best quality foods we can afford and hey we'll go without just to feed them what they deserve! I even know alot of FARMERS in ALBERTA that treat their dogs as their children and let them live indoors all year round. The fact is; just because it's the NORM to treat your dog like livestock where you live, doesn't mean it's necessarily what you SHOULD do.

[theresa92841]

Just wanted to chime in that 3 months is really pretty young for a puppy to be reliably house broken. I am sure the pupster is well on her way to learning. I don't want you to expect too much of it though. There will most likely be accidents or even back sliding. A dog is reliably house broken when it goes for 2 months without an accident in the house.

Good luck!

Oh, and I have also been taught that it is far easier to house break a dog when you allow it to stay in the house with you. That if you let the dog be an outside dog, then it may have troubles really being reliable with house training. Since the dog needs to learn that it really does have to hold it and wait to go potty when it is inside. And when it is outside it doesn't learn that.

[lindsayanng]

I think you really need to understand that I did not ever mention that it was wrong of you to let your dog sleep outside, you only perceived it that way. The ONLY thing i said was that you were expecting to much if you planned on letting your dog live outside half of a year.. Now, you say that you are NOT going to let her live outside half of the year.. Well, HOW am i supposed to know that. How am i supposed to know anything about you other than what you type here. You said you were going to let her sleep inside in the winter, but come spring she will be outside.. How else should i read that as a dog that lives inside part time and outside part time.

I still stick with what i have been saying from day one, and that is the same thing that theresa just said. You are not ever going to have a reliably housetrained dog IF you have a dog that lives outside part time and inside part time.. LIVES, not just visits outside.

[Kkye]

maybe it would be beneficial to all to know the whole deal before you start making assumptions.

[lindsayanng]

Maybe you should post the details of the actual situation instead of assuming people know what your situation is. I'm sorry, but i am not at fault. ANYONE who read your posts would have thought the same thing..

[Kkye]

again, i asked WHY it happened, not HOW i fix it.

and again, the answer "because she's a puppy" would have been good enough.

[lindsayanng]

If you knew the answer before hand, then why did you post??

[Kkye]

because i didn't. there you are, assuming again. and someone gave me that answer, actually.

[segatacolink]

I need some advice on potty training tips. I posted a new thread(Puppy Advice), but no one is replying, so I thought I would try in this thread since the title is housebreaking even though it seems to be a little bit of a disagreement. Please help.

[Kkye]

i'll check out your thread, but as far as some people are concerned, i have all the wrong ideas and i probably shouldn't even have a dog, but i'll help any way i can.

[dlaura]

Kkye because of your comments in js10jj's thread I have been researching your threads/posts and I believe this is the one that put you on the offense. Here on Petlovers many are very passionate about their pets and at times don't take the time to re-read what they have typed and consider how it will sound to the person they are replying to. I can understand your taking offense to being told your thoughts about dog ownership are skewed and see how things progressed from there. As a moderator here please accept my apology for how that comment must have made you perceive Petlovers. It isn't what we are trying to achieve at all and is frustrating when this happens. Our passions run away with our tongues at times and we don't realize - we will try our best to improve.

[tiffers]

you cant REALLY have a dog that lives MOST of their lives outside and only comes in once and a while that is completely housetrained.

Not trying to start up an argument, but I don't really agree here. Chica was house trained as a puppy, stayed that way for a year or so, then she lived outside for a few years...yes, IN A PEN (the horror!), and now...she lives inside...still COMPLETELY house trained...never once needed to be reminded or anything. For me, I've found that most dogs...once house trained...stay that way. Like riding a bike, I guess.

[Kkye]

dlaura -

thank you so much for your consideration. it hurts to be told you don't care about your pet.

mucho appreciato.

[lindsayanng]

let ,e just clarify AGAIN.. I never attacked anyone personally and maybe the use of "dog ownership" instead of "dog training" would have been a better choice, but TIFFERS, you situation is COMPLETELY different than the one that i had thought was the initial situation here.

You had a dog who lived in a kennel and then was brough inside the house FULL TIME.. but this would be a dog who would live part time inside the house and partime outside the house.. MAYBE people who have housetrained a dog will tell you that it is going to be VERY difficult to do.. Not impossible if you have an exemplary dog, but thats RARELY the case..

The point is, the OP took offense to the fact that i used the terms "your view on dog ownership is skewed" and then continues to take into offense everything else i said even though i can back up everything with fact and was NOT attacking your choice to let your dog live outside but instead your ideal that your dog would remained housebroken.

and no. I dont believe that the only answer you wanted was "because shes a puppy" otherwise you would not have posted.

Tell me once where i said you dont care about the dog..

[dlaura]

Lindsay, I am going to ask you a question here. How would you feel if I told you that your photography or your picture taking was skewed and not right? Then I go on and on and on about how to improve it and sound like I know best and you had better do it my way or else I'll hound until you finally listen. Lindsay do you think you would hear any of the wonderful information I was imparting to you.................or would take a more human stance and take offense? It will probably be the latter as it is only natural .............and Lindsay this is exactly what you are doing!!!!!! No one is going to hear your knowledge or great info if you mix it with insults. Please, please stop and re-read what you say from the opposite viewpoint before hitting submit reply.

[dlaura]

dlaura -

thank you so much for your consideration. it hurts to be told you don't care about your pet.

mucho appreciato.

You're very welcome. It seems to be a full moon around here today or something - I haven't moderated so much in one day in like forever or maybe even ever. :)

[lindsayanng]

First off, photography is an art and no one can tell you that art is wrong.. DOg training is a science for the most part.. Dogs behave and learn in a certain way.. my PHOTOGRAPHY cant be skewed anyways.. my IDEAS about what a photographer does might be SKEWED, or my ideals about how much money a photographer makes can be skewed but ACTUAL photography can not be skewed.

here is the definition of SKEWED
Adjective
distorted or biased because of prejudice or lack of information: a skewed conception of religion

THEREFORE my use of the word is ENTIRELY right, non-offensive (unless this person really wants to think that their way of thinking is right and they are never wrong, but then whats the point in posting a question)

THe OP ideals about having a housetrained dog is SKEWED because they lack the knowledge of what housebreaking entails and how having a dog that lives outside part time and inside part time is going to make it VERY hard and near impossible to train a puppy to be housebroken. Their ideals of owning this dog and having it live that way are distorted because of their lack of knowledge of housetraining and puppies..

[tiffers]

Lindsay, log off PetLovers for an hour or more. Your posts are getting worse and worse...it is obvious that you are boiling mad over there. You're going to do or say something you regret...and really, no one wants that.

[Kkye]

agreed. definitely.

[Macawpower58]

I've known many, many dogs living a double life. Inside at times, yet also outdoors at times. Once housebroken (like Tiff stated), they stay housebroken. As for the age of trusting a pup, this can very widely. Some can be great at 4 months, while others (my boy for one) will not be dependable upto a year. My one boy peed in his crate up to 8 months of age. It drove me nuts, but he did finally become dry at night.

The one thing I will agree with, is that for a young pup, it's better to keep them indoors until housebroken. Housebreaking is hard enough, with out confusing the issue more by changing living quarters.

Kkye, as Tiffers and dlaura said, most of us here welcome you and are not judging. We do have a few easily excited members that can get carried away. Don't judge this board by one thread gone awry.

[lindsayanng]

I'm sorry, i would beg to differ. We had pleanty of dogs at the shelter where i used to work that, once they made it into the shelter, they would need to be RE-TRAINED when they made it to their forever home..

And yes, the whole point of me saying this is because this is a puppy and she/he needs at minimum a year of indoor living to REALLY solidify, then, since you said she will still be allowed IN in the summer and just SLEEP outside in teh winter, you will be ok..

And i really just want to clarify that i never once said anything other than what i know about house breaking..

[Macawpower58]

I'm sorry, i would beg to differ. We had pleanty of dogs at the shelter where i used to work that, once they made it into the shelter, they would need to be RE-TRAINED when they made it to their forever home..

Lindsay, shelter dogs are a whole nother story. The stress level on these dogs can cause all kinds of behavior problems, including cleanliness indoors. They do not have the kind of stability that a dog living with a family does.

There is no comparison.

[squashynose]

I'm sorry, i would beg to differ. We had pleanty of dogs at the shelter where i used to work that, once they made it into the shelter, they would need to be RE-TRAINED when they made it to their forever home..

Ours don't :confused: If they come in housetrained, they go out housetrained. Sure they might have one or two accidents as they adjust to their new home and routine, but don't need re-training.

[Hunna]

Wow.. threads are crazy today..

Anyways, is it possible that your dog was simply afraid to pee in front of you?
She may see your "NO!" as going potty is bad, instead of where she went potty as bad.
Do you go out with her to go potty, or just put her out to go alone?
She may just have still been confused, but it seems she is sorting it out. I would still praise her like crazy every time you see her go potty outside, just to re-enforce that going outside is a great thing, just not in the house. This will mean a few walks outside with her, but may be the extra praise she needs to finish her training completely.

[dlaura]

Wow.. threads are crazy today..

Oh, you can say that again! It has been nuts.

Anyways, is it possible that your dog was simply afraid to pee in front of you?
She may see your "NO!" as going potty is bad, instead of where she went potty as bad.

Hmm, that is a strong possibility Hunna. Great observation.

Do you go out with her to go potty, or just put her out to go alone?
She may just have still been confused, but it seems she is sorting it out. I would still praise her like crazy every time you see her go potty outside, just to re-enforce that going outside is a great thing, just not in the house. This will mean a few walks outside with her, but may be the extra praise she needs to finish her training completely.

Great advice! We used praise when training our pups too and it really helped. You could also give the pup a small treat along with the praising to doubly enforce how pleased you are. They really do want to please their humans.