What do you think?

['too crazy]

Yesterday I was at a pet store and I was talking to a lady about feather picking. I told her about Barney (G2) and how I can't get him to quit. She said her dad had a totally featherless goffin he brought back to full feather buy using a heat lamp and bathing everyday and misting with molt ease after the bath. Well of course I try everything but I got to thinking, what about feeding some of the baby bird food. Barney is a horrible eater and even though he gets vitamins in his water, I thought maybe some of the baby bird food everyday would have better vitamins and maybe it will help with new feathers. I've never hand fed so I may be way off base here but the new babies grow new feathers and I was wondering if anyone thought this would be worth a try or not?

[an98f]

I'm sorry, I can't help you with your problem, but just wanted to comment on the vitamins in his water. I read that putting vitamins in water isn't healthy. If you do that, the water spoils quicker and attracts bacteria, so you might want to avoid that.

[dlaura]

Hi 'too crazy,
Hey I thought we were planning to have coffee together this morning??? LOL
I don't know if it will help to feed baby food formula, but don't think it could hurt anything. You could even try offering it off a spoon instead of hand feeding thru the syringe.

[krazy4birds]

Oh gosh....I have been using vitamins in their water too.....maybe not such a good idea?????? I think the heat lamp and bathes sound good. I bath Oliver 1-3 times a day because I was told it helps them be busy about drying that they do not have time to pick. Not sure it is helping yet but he sure is clean....LOL... Jason (Gems)told me it was like watching your hair grow...you won't really see it but one day it's there. I like the baby food idea too.

['too crazy]

Well I change their water every morning and night and sometimes during the day, depending how much food they've put it. Sometimes it looks pretty gross, mostly with the quaker. I could be missing something or doing something wrong but the powder vitamins on their food goes right to the bottom of the dish and in the garbage every night.

Sorry about coffee today Diane. I have my house tore apart and am cleaning from top to bottom. But I'm still drinking coffee! I was thinking about hand feeding him some to try and get him on my side since he seems to prefer Jim. :rolleyes: hehe I'm going to by the molt ease and see what that does. I think it's the only thing I haven't tried (which you well know!!) I boiled up somemore tea today and plan to start bathing everyday even though he hates it. I swear I'll get some feathers on that bird if I have to hot glue them on!! :eek:

[dlaura]

LOL 'toocrazy, I have been trying to bathe Angel everyday, but allowed her a day off yesterday and overslept this morning. However, I did mist her before going to work.
I had purchased some white feathers from Walmart to make a preening toy, and then was thinking of weaving them someway into a birdy sweater - then she could pluck artificial feathers instead of her own. As far as the chamomile tea, I've been giving her the mixture on a continual basis, can't say I see much difference. However, I did notice that the feathers on top of her wings (shoulder area) are losing their dull dingy look and looking whiter. That is what encouraged me to mist her before leaving this morning.

[Jenny]

ROFL, I've thought of hot-gluing feathers on too! I might have a feathered bird but definitely wouldn't have a happy one! I might try the Molt Ease/heat lamp with Mortie. I'm skeptical of everythign at this point but also willing to try everything! Yeah, I wouldn't use the vitamins in the water as it encourages bacterial growth and also can make the water taste bad. I was reading articles at Dr. Wissman's site and she thinks all pet birds should be using water bottles...I'm going to try to switch my birds, I know they'll use the bottles but they have such a fun time with the bowls that I'm reluctant to switch. Are you talking about a commercial hand-feeding formula to use? I think that could be a good idea, you can use a spoon instead of a syringe, might work better. I don't use that but instead each day I throw a ton of different kinds of healthy foods into the blender so it gets like a mash, and all the birds enjoy that plus it's full of vitamins and minerals.

[Jenny]

Posted at the same time again! I've thought of weaving feathers into Mortie's sweater as well. However, the sweaters don't work very well as they are tight enough against the skin that it is hard for the feathers to grow underneath without eventually breaking. A loose cape-type thing would probably work better (the next thing I'm going to try). I do save my birds' molted feathers and they love to hold one at a time and chew on the ends!

[Love Bird B]

Jenny, I'm surprised that great little sweater you made for Mortie isn't enough to stop him from plucking.

I like the Molt Ease/heat lamp idea too, and hope to hear some good results from everyone!

['too crazy]

Zupreem has a hand feeding formula for cockatoo's and that's what I was thinking about trying. I thought maybe it would have some good vitamins and nutriants in it. I would still give him his other food but he came to me on a seed diet and his diet still mostly contains seeds because he picks all the pellets out. I crush them in a blender so they're really fine and add them to any food I make (for example scrambled eggs) and he doesn't even know their in there. But the major part of his diet is seeds. Plus I thought it would help him to trust me more if I hand fed him. It was a lady who neglected him so he would just as soon I stay away. I'm for sure going to do the bath and molt ease thing though.

[Jenny]

Well see, the feathers would grow in but once they were nearly fully opened the base would get weak from being pressed down by the sweater, and so the feather would break. Also Mortie anyway is so "preeny" that he even figured out how to pull out some of the feathers underneath the sweater! 'Too Crazy, have you tried putting some pellets in a blender and then adding a little bit of banana or some other type of food that Barney really likes? I rarely feed my birds pellets plain anymore, I always mix them up with some other food they like so it's like a really thick pudding, then they each get a little bit of seed mix throughout the day.

[Gems]

plz have your bird checked for a vitaminA or calcium deficiency. Also, if it has had access to any kind of galvanized wire or toy clips or anything, it could be zinc poisoning. All of these things cause feather picking and are treatable, but you need to know what you are up against. Daily baths may help some though.

[Jenny]

Well while we're on the topic, I hope no one minds if I re-tell Mortie's story as maybe Gems will have some new suggestions. Anyway, Mortie is my blue-crowned conure that I got a few years ago. I volunteer at an exotic animal clinic, and his owners dropped him off telling the folks to find him a home as they no longer wanted him. From the information I gathered, he was wild caught and had had at least 3 homes, making him 15+ yrs. old when I got him. The cage he was in was very small, he had two perches, two toys so big he ignored them, and he was fed primarily sunflower seeds. Once his owners went on vacation and let him sit on the driver's shoulder, but he was climbing all over the driver's head so next time they went on vacation they left him at home (don't ask me why they didn't just put him in a carrier for the trip, I have no idea) with little interaction from anyone or anything. When they got back, he was bare naked except for his head, primary/secondary flight feathers, and tail feathers. They sprayed him with something for awhile which discouraged him from plucking and his feathers supposedly regrew, though the day they didnt' spray him he pulled them all out again. That's all I know. Now he's with me and I changed his diet right away, he gets pellets plus lots of "human foods" each day. I bought him a big cage, plus lots of toys and perches and have come along way in teaching him to entertain himself. He still plucks though. Do you think if it were a Vitamin A or calcium deficiency and I added more of foods rich in those nutrients to his food, that he'd really stop plucking? I also havent' done much testing as I've heard of so many people who spend $1000 on every available test only to come to no conclusion (I'm 15 and can't afford it anyway!).

[Squawksx3]

Sis~ I think mixing baby bird food with the regular food couldn't hurt... we occassionally give ours human baby food. A heat lamp may also help and worth a try. Iguana's require heat lamps and get calcium from them, so it may also work with birds. I only have the heat lamp on for the Iguana 12 hours a day. Natural sunlight is the best. Is Barney able to get in the sun at all, via window or actually being outside?. I know the weather's been pretty cold lately back there, but we will put ours by windows so they can get some sun rays ;) . As for the vitamins in the water, I've done this for over 4 years and our vet said to continue what we're doing because they're wonderfully healthy.. we change their water 2 to 3 times a day which should be done anyways... if yours are anything like ours, they constantly put their food in their water. I've tried the powder that goes on the food and none of them will touch the food, so I gave up on that. Good luck and let us know if these things help.

[Serya]

I've read everyone's replies and only have one thing to add to what everyone else has said. If you choose to try the baby bird food technique with the hand feeding, you should take out some books on bird care, (particularly, baby bird care). I suggest this because you mentioned that you've never hand fed, and feeding with a syringe can be dangerous to the bird if you don't know how to do it properly. The formula can very well end up in the lungs or windpipe, if I'm not mistaken, and cause the bird to choke. (I remember reading this in an article somewhere when I was doing research on breeding birds). In fact, if you did want to learn more about it, a search on breeding would probably be a good start, as many breeders hand feed their babies. I really hope that Barney is ok, and that he stops picking. It seems as though you've tried everything else thus far. Some baby formula probably won't hurt any. Good luck.

[Gems]

well Jenny, that's kind of an odd story. YOu could try fortifying his diet like you mentioned. Is this a tame bird? You could also try a vitamin A cream or lotion and rub in into his skin if he'll allow it. I've been told and read in a few places that Vitmain A helps lubricate the skin and feathers as they grow, and if he is defieicient, it could be irritating his skin.
How long has he been plucked and how bad is he?
I would try and do the zinc test at least.

[Jenny]

Yes, it is an odd story indeed. I'm sorry that I never got to speak to the owners in person, and have no way of contacting them now as I would like to get his entire story in more detail- from what I could piece together, he's by now plucked for about 4 years. He is a very tame bird (now anyway, wasn't completely when I got him!). He would allow me to rub lotion on his skin I think, do you have any specific brand/type in mind? I'm worried that he'd get it all over his feathers though and ingest it. I think it's a definite possiblity that he's continuing plucking because of some sort of vitamin deficiency, as he seems to eat the feathers he pulls out almost- yet as far as I'm concerned he's getting the recommended diet (pellets, fresh fruits/veggies/legumes/etc. and some seed) and I have no idea what to change. He is a very bad plucker, the only worse I've seen was a Goffins who actually pulled out his head feathers with his foot! About the zinc test, do you think it'd do any good if it's been so many months since he was in his old cage? Also considering he started plucking when he was "abandoned" it seems it's just a psychological problem to me.

[Jenny]

Rereading posts here.... In response to heat lamps, a plain heat lamp will not help unless it has UVB rays, also most window glass blocks that out. A UVB light or actual sunlight is what causes the skin to manufacture Vitamin D, which in turn is necessary for calcium absorbtion. If the bird is on a mostly seed diet and not drinking as much as thought and getting enough of the vitamins/minerals in the water, then it's extremely possible that it's not getting enough calcium. If it's eating pellets though then it should be getting the Vitamin D from the food.

['too crazy]

Thanks all for the advice and opinions. I think there is a misunderstanding I need to clear up. I'm not looking to 'hand fed' my 7 year old bird. I was just thinking the baby bird food might have vitamins in it that he's not getting being mostly on a seed diet. What I ended up doing was buying rice baby cereal and mixing that up for him. I added some ground up pellets and he seemed to like it. So I guess I'll use baby food that he eats himself out of the bowl and see if there is any improvement. I also bought molt ease to spray on him after every bath. He's not real happy about the bath part. Gems, he has been to the vet but without repeating the whole story again, he was severly neglected and his picking is now a habit. There are a few of us here who swap ideas due to owning a feather picker. I was unaware about the calcium though so I thank you for that bit of info. Jenny I talked to a lady last year who used a water bottle for her eclectus. One morning she got up and it was dead. Seems the ball in the bottle got stuck and the bird went without water. I know my own experiences with water bottles when we had hamsters and degus but usually the water dripped all over and we had to clean the cage again. I know a lot of people use water bottles but I thought it was something worth mentioning.

[dlaura]

Hi 'too crazy,
If only we could mold our two feather pluckers together maybe we'd have one completely featherd too. LOL Anyway I was wondering if you've ever tried adding the pellets to birdie bread cupcakes. Maybe Barney would enjoy that. You use the corn bread mix and add the pellets and vegetables if you want and bake. I've been continuing Angel on the chaomile tea daily and the past few days there feathers a plenty on the bottom of her cage. Yet there seem to be new feathers on her chest --it almost seems that they grow overnight. It is such a dilemma.

['too crazy]

He hates birdie bread/cupcakes! He's a junk food bird...that's why he fits in here so well! hehe I do grind up pellets and add them to eggs and spagetti and stuff. I did notice yesterday there were less pellets on the bottom of the cage. So now I'm doing half seeds and half pellets. I'm hoping soon to be seeds as a treat only! I'm still doing the tea too. I think I do it more to make me feel better than him. :D

[dlaura]

LOL, I know what you mean!

[Gems]

Jenny, I'd try a holistic/ health type store. YOU can probably get it in a natural oil rather than a lotion, which wouldn't harm his feathers or him if he ingested it. As far as the vitamin A goes, sweet potatoes are an excellent source and all of my birds love them. You also cannot beat natural sunlight for helping relieve itchy skin problems. Tkae him outside in a small cage for awhile everyday.(not too long or he could sunburn)
If the plucking has become habitual, first you must rid the source of what caused it in the first place. I don't know if I buy that story they told you about him plucking his whole body all at once. That is rather odd, especially for a conure. I'd guess that he did it over a longer period of time, and they were covering their neglect of the problem. you may have to resort to a collar for awhile until they grow back, after you've figured out the source. Try putting one on him when you are not around and removing when he is spending time with you.
As far as the zinc goes, if that is the case, it will stay with him until it is removed through medication.

[Jenny]

'Too Crazy- that's so sad about the eclectus. Water bottles can cause problems, so if they're used they need to be checked every day to make sure they're working. On the other hand though, it keeps the water alot cleaner.
Gems- yep, he gets sweet potatoes, but not every day. He loves them though! I also have been taking him outside daily. In the winter of course I coudln't but I've made a play area outside for him and he loves being out there with me and the cat! lol As far as ridding the source of what caused the plucking, well, I've got rid of the awful cage, awful diet, awful toys, and...cough cough....awful owners...so I don't know what else to get rid of! I did try a collar too, he just plucked the few out that had grown in once it was taken off. The second it was off, he reached back and ripped them out before I coudl do anything. I had him wearing a sweater for about 5 months and just took it off last week and this time he left the few that had grown in, so maybe if I tried the collar again he'd leave the new feathers alone when it finally came to taking it off. On some areas such as his chest, I think the feather follicles are permanently damaged because no feathers grow in there, even w/ a collar. As far as removing a collar when he's spending time with me, first of all collars aren't too easy to get on/off and secondly, even when he's fully distracted and with me or on the playstand he'll stop and start messing with his feathers. I appreciate all your advice and ideas though! I'll discuss the zinc with my vet.

[dlaura]

It sounds as if a zinc test should be one of the basic tests to do for a feather plucker......... and I am left wondering why neither of the two avian vets I took Angel to did not perform this test? Appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks

[krazy4birds]

Is this done in the blood work up? Do you do a certain test just for that. I was wondering because if it is done by blood work up maybe I can draw the blood and send it in? Well...not "me" personally but my father n law....he does all sorts of things like that with his own critters....

[Gems]

it's a specific test. As to why other vets didn't recommend it, maybe they aren't aware of it. Who knows?