Peridontal disease forces change in diet; help with transition, please?

[Llamalady]

I just had my 8 year old siamese mix diagnosed with peridontal disease. He is going to have to have some surgery involving a large amount of his teeth being pulled. This is such a shock to me because last year there was no signs of his teeth bothering him and he has given me no signs up until this point that he was hurting.

This is my problem. I'm trying to switch him over to canned food. I have fed him dry food all his life because I was raised believing that it would be better for their teeth. (My vet tells me that over all the years he's been a doctor he finds that it's a coin toss, because genetics is what causes the good or bad teeth unless you're able to brush your cat's teeth everyday and that's usually not feasible.) Who would have thought? Well now I'm trying to transition him to canned food and if I even give him a little bit of canned food a few hours later he is vomiting up everything he ate during the day. How can I switch him over to canned food? I don't want my kitty to starve. If I need to, I will cook for him chicken or whatever if that would be good for him but I'm not sure he can chew it.... I just was hoping somebody had some idea.

I started the ratio out with half of a teaspoon of canned food with his dry food, so I started out really small and it still didn't work last night. He REALLY liked the taste and smell of it though...

[special]

Hi and Welcome to Petlovers!

I'm sorry to hear your cat is having dental problems. I hope you are not blaming yourself for not knowing, as cats are experts at hiding illness.

My cat recently had to have dental surgery and four extractions, he had resorptive lesions (FORL) which is a very painful condition. I was horrified when I found out he had been in pain for several months and I never even knew, as I watch my cats' every move.

If he is eating the dry food still, I wonder why you want to switch? Many cats don't even chew their kibble, or just one crunch then swallow so kibble really won't cause them any extra discomfort. Is he eating as much kibble as ever? If he his appetite for kibble has not gone off, I wouldn't think a switch is needed.

My kitty with Feline Odontalclastic Resorptive Lesions (FORL) was primarily a canned food eater until the lesions began forming. then he seemed to prefer dry food instead, because he swallowed it whole, whereas he had to lick up the canned food.

That being said, perhaps you can try a different brand or flavor or styles of canned food that he will like better. Trial and error is the way to go.

For instance see if he prefers "chunks or cuts in gravy" style over pate. Or the "shredded" variety.

I don't recommend mixing it with the dry because that may make it more difficult for him to eat either one. Feed him a small amount of canned first, before putting down his kibble.

When is his surgery scheduled? He will feel so much better after, and once he's all healed, will be able to go back fully to his beloved kibble, if he wants.

Please let us know how things turn out.

[Llamalady]

Thank you Special for the warm welcome.

I am an overcompulsive mommy worrier who worries about everything for Linus so I was absolutely mortified when I found out something was wrong with my little boy that I thought I should have known ahead of time. I blame myself some but I know I kinda have to get over that. I watch him like a hawk about everything so I feel I should have known something was wrong. Right now we are trying to scrounge up money to take care of the cat. My husband just spent 2 1/2 months off of work for knee surgery and so money is still very tight and we have nothing for savings left. Our mother-in-law owes us like $200 - over the course of a year and a half - and that would probably cover everything that needs to be done for our boy but whether she'll actually pay us or not is still up in the air.

I have never had a senior kitty grow into problems before. Usually my pets would already have a pre-existing condition and die well before then. I tend to fall for broken animals. It's a weakness of mine. I think I can fix them.. And now I have this cat who is the best cat EVER (he does tricks and he's just a mush-head and he's too cool) and I don't know how to make this transition. transitioning kittens to dry food, easy; senior Linus not so easy.
*I* don't want to switch Linus's food but he is NOT eating even half of what he would normally eat and this has gone on for about a month. I just thought it was the heat. I know people say that their cat won't starve themselves to death but I had a cat with ulcers in his mouth that almost did just that between his steroid shots. When we weighed him on friday (this is when we found out the news) he has not lost or put on any weight since last year - which is odd because I would think he would have put on a little. He usually puts a wee bit on. He used to have a eating disorder. I could NEVER leave free range food out he would eat until he vomited and then keep eating and eating and eating and eating... So obviously I had to switch over to portion control. Now, he barely wants to eat his food.

Nobody seems to understand why I'm so upset and I had no one really to talk about it to. My husband loves him, but I had Linus when I met my husband so Linus is MY cat... more so. This am though, he told me, "we're going to take care of him.. don't worry. Whatever it takes... as long as we can afford it." the last little bit was said in a jokey matter but he also said, "if we need to cook for him, that's what we will do.." But most of the time when I try to bounce ideas off of him, he seems put off, like "we've already gone over this before"... He's obviously not the right one to be talking to about this.

The doctor said that he's not sure he can save enough of his molars that he will be able to stay on the dry so what I've been wanting to do is slowly work on transitioning, trying to at least make it so that he doesn't feel hungry all the time.

I guess I'm kind of panicking because he's always been such a good friend to me, that I don't know how I'll be able to handle it if I can't be as good a friend for him... I want to make this right for him.

[special]

I understand completely. I am the same way about my cats. My life revolves around them. And since I have three special needs cats, and one "neurotic" cat, like you, it seems that the ones who need extra care just seem to find me.

I wish you luck on trying the different styles of canned food.

but just so you know, I know cats with no teeth at all who enjoy their kibble just as they always have done. And you know, my boy who had the FORL, he had four extractions,( one root was already completely disintegrated,) even wiht all those missing teeth, he eats more kibble than ever now, and has been a mostly canned food cat all his life up until now.

You will be amazed at what a different cat Linus is after his surgery. I thought my 9 year old boy was just "slowing down", but after he healed from those extracitons he has become the cheerful jolly jokester he's always been again.

There are options for you. See if your vet accepts "Care Credit". this is a line of credit that is strictly for veterinary bills. (they also have plans for human health care)

There is also an organization called IMOM, though I understand the application process is lengthy, but may be worth looking into for you.

Let me see if I can find those links for you.

and everyone here understands your agony and worry over Linus, believe me.

[special]

http://www.imom.org/

http://www.carecredit.com/practices/veterinary/

[Llamalady]

I definitely am getting the surgery as soon as I can financially do it... There's no doubt in my mind. I don't want him to have any nasty infections we could have prevented by taking care of him the right way....

Thank you for your support. It means a lot. I've been crying to day over it because I feel like I have failed him and I am continuing to fail him... :(

[Llamalady]

I know our vet will except firewood in lieu of payment but I don't know anyone who has any extra... If I had two or three bundles it would definitely take care of the money issue...

[Llamalady]

IMOM is not taking new applications right now...

I think the other vet's office does the care program but the doctor doesn't like cats. He was VERY rude when I brought in my cat with the ulcers. He disgustedly talked to his nurse and said, "oh THAT cat's still alive"? This cat was my universe, my reason for living, my reason for not killing myself when my mom wasn't medicated and would throw me down the stairs and tear out chunks of my hair (mom's medicated and great now though). What would you do? Would you wait and save up your money to go to the doctor who treats my cat like the king he is or do I go to the other place where he will be so annoyed to have to take care of a cat?

[Llamalady]

I know that sounds weird but I just want Linus to be as comfortable as possible, and I don't think he'll be comfortable with someone who will be cold to him.

[special]

IMOM is not taking new applications right now...

I think the other vet's office does the care program but the doctor doesn't like cats. He was VERY rude when I brought in my cat with the ulcers. He disgustedly talked to his nurse and said, "oh THAT cat's still alive"? This cat was my universe, my reason for living, my reason for not killing myself when my mom wasn't medicated and would throw me down the stairs and tear out chunks of my hair (mom's medicated and great now though). What would you do? Would you wait and save up your money to go to the doctor who treats my cat like the king he is or do I go to the other place where he will be so annoyed to have to take care of a cat?

I would never EVER go to a vet I was not comfortable with. never. Don't do it. Linus will be okay.

Cats don't process pain the same way humans do, they are much more accepting and stoic. I know "easy for me to say" as I am not the one worrying myself sick over Linus.

but I will tell you that my Sweet Pea (you saw his picture in the cat nip thread) had to wait several months for his surgery AFTER he was diagnosed, because first, my vet was away on a conference right after the diagnosis and I did not want anyone else to do the surgery and then there was trouble with his blood work.

He takes phenobarbitol for a seizure disorder and his pheno levels had shot up. I won't go into the details of why, but we had to wait another five weeks and retest before my vet would finally do the surgery.

Like you I suffered much more than he did those extra months. he did end up losing a little bit of weight, and I knew he was in pain, but he still stayed out and about, ate, and behaved normally except for he was much quieter.

I am not trying to belittle your distress. I know you are going to fret and worry and feel bad, no matter what I say. I'm just trying to let you know you are not alone, I've been through the same thing, if that is any help at all

[special]

I know that sounds weird but I just want Linus to be as comfortable as possible, and I don't think he'll be comfortable with someone who will be cold to him.

No, it doesn't sound weird. I already said this in another reply but I will repeat it. Always, ALWAYS trust your instincts about a vet. If you don't like him or trust him, don't use him, period.

It took me almost seven years (when I moved here) and four practices, then I when I finally found a practice I was comfortable with, it took me another six months, and trying out each of the six vets in the practice in turn, before I finally found a vet I am happy with. I LOVE my vet, so all the switching around was worth it.

There are three vets in the practice I use that I refuse to see except in direst emergency. there are two other vets in my area, that I will refuse to go to, even in direst emergency. I will drive the 2 hours to Cornell before I will allow either of those vets to go near my cats.

So if you are "weird" then so am I.

[Llamalady]

I expect that I am going to cry and stress and worry and fret... but I am glad you feel the same way I do about the vet issue. You made me feel better. I would rather feel comfortable about the vet. The vet who doesn't like cats, how can I expect him to do right by my cat if he doesn't care about it and doesn't respect him? My vet always tells me what a handsome boy my Linus is and he babytalks him while he inspects him... His bedside manner, amazing...

We're hoping in August we can hopefully get his teeth done - we hope to have enough money by then because my husband's birthday is next month and so we have to pay car registration and get his new license and bla bla bla...

But in the meantime you really think he'll just be better if I feed him what he usually eats?

Should I add gravy?

Should I cook chicken for him? Should I add water to his dry food?

He's not very skinny, he has a little bit of extra weight (a pound or two) so as long as his weight doesn't drop off a bunch he'll be okay. I just want to ?ensure/insure? this doesn't happen.

And of course I'm freaking out on a Sunday when the vet's office is closed and I can't call to harass them with questions...

[special]

I am not a vet but yes I think you should let him eat what he wants to eat as far as canned vs dry cat food. You can monitor his intake to be sure his appetite has not fallen off to a dangerous level. Measure out his food every day so you know for sure how much he is eating every day.

I suggest keeping a little cat journal about his symptoms and intake. This will help you keep track of how he is doing. It's hard to remember after a few days go by..."let's see I think he stopped eating as much five days ago" when actually it might be longer, if you see what I mean.

Continue to engage him in his favorite games and everything else he loves to do. He may not play quite as much, but he will appreciate the attention.

If there is a day he seems uninterested in food, a little white meat chicken, or canned chicken, baby food, or even tuna to spark his appetite, would be okay, but not on a regular basis. Especially now, it is important that he get all the nutrients he needs in his cat food.

If you give him canned chicken or tuna or even baby food read all the jars and cans labels very carefully first to be sure there is no onion or garlic added to them, as these can cause anemia.

My boy did lose a little, but less than a pound over the four months between diagnosis and finally getting the surgery. He recovered it quite quickly afterwards.

And stick around here. It's a great place for getting support and talking to people who understand how you feel.

[Llamalady]

This is only the second forum I've ever enjoyed and the other one I practically live at but I must be the only one there who loves animals as much as I do... or they're lurking... I think this is a great place and just might move in! ;)

But back to Linus

So my husband and I will have to start being very specific about how much food he's getting, and I will start writing down if he ate all his food or not or how much heat ate...

Another question though, if he's acting like he's hungry should I feed him again to try and keep him at his normal weight before his surgery or is it okay for him to lose a little weight? Because before, like I said he used to act like he was hungry ALL THE TIME.. so that is kind of normal for him, but lately he hasn't... :(

[special]

I know Linus has a history as a scarf and barfer. If you keep track of how much you are feeding him, and feed him in small meals to prevent the vomiting, as you are already doing, you will know that he's had enough to maintain his health. By premeasuring out the food in the morning, and feeding from that at each meal you will know he is getting what he shuold be getting.

f he still acts hungry, say an hour after one of his meals, you can "trick" him into thinking he is getting more by just tossing him a few kibbles, one at a time, out of the premeasured amount.

My two cats who have to watch their weight get four small main meals a day,two in the morning an hour apart, and two in the evening an hour apart, plus a few "treats" in between. the treats are just a few pieces of their kibble, tossed one at a time, for "Chase the Kibble" Game.

( those are the two younger cats. the two older cats are reluctant eaters and are fed when and what they want whenever I am home to offer it to them. )

[Llamalady]

Ooh! So when I have him do his tricks, I would do it out of his pre-designated food allotment for the day.

(he does tricks for food; he's awesome).

That's a great idea! And if I make it into a game maybe he'll be more likely to finish his food!

[special]

Ooh! So when I have him do his tricks, I would do it out of his pre-designated food allotment for the day.

(he does tricks for food; he's awesome).

That's a great idea! And if I make it into a game maybe he'll be more likely to finish his food!

There you go!

It was my Lovey that invented Chase the Kibble Game. She has FLUTD and I had to reduce her weight. I spilled a few pieces of kibble by accident a couple eyars ago and she went after them like they were mortal enemies to be subdued. so a new Game was born.

Now both Lovey cat and Pudding girl get two sessions of Chase the Kibble a day, in addtion to four main meals (as already described), out of their premeasured quantity. I had to cut back 1/8 cup on my Pudding girl as she was getting too heavy, but with this method (premeausred and Chase the kibble snacks) she has no idea she is being deprived!

I hope it works to keep Linus eating enough, too, until you can save the money for his surgery. I wonder..would your vet accept a downpayment of say..half the fee, then allow you to pay off the rest in installments? If you are a frequent visitor to that practice for many years, they may be willing to do this for you and Linus.

[Llamalady]

They have a sign up that due to the abuse of credit, the vet will no longer be taking payments and that fees must be paid in full...

I'm thinking maybe I can put an ad in our free paper looking for firewood for fees though :D

[Llamalady]

Another item, if I DO HAVE to switch to wet food, is there something the doctor can give him for anti-nausea?

[tiffers]

...something to keep in mind. Cats do not 'chew' their food. They do not have 'chewing' teeth. Kibble or not, Linus can still eat it. Don't worry yourself sick if he won't eat canned...if they were raised with it, they will probably not eat it because they're aren't used to it. Let Linus eat whatever he wants, he won't 'chew' it anyway. As Special says, it's more important that he is eating, not what he is eating.

[tiffers]

And yes, there are a few antiemetics that your vet can give you for nausea. You'll just have to ask for them. :)

[Llamalady]

I just don't want to watch him starve.. I did that with our persian Kami Kazi (well he didn't starve to death but he had a virus that would cause ulcers in his mouth and he would get really skinny before we had to get his steroid shots.. as Special says it's notoriously hard to tell when they need to go in). But at least Kazi would eat everything we gave him or whatever he wanted. If he wanted baby food, he had it, if he wanted tuna, he had it, if he would eat dry food that's what he had...

He didn't puke, even with his long fur.. Funny, and weird, but true.

Like I said, I'm an overworrying mommy... I think I'll just feel better when we've got a date set to take care of him, when I know we have the money and he's going to be back to his normal Garfield-like self...

It feels really good to talk to people who kinda know what I'm going through and at least love their animals as much as I do.

[tiffers]

I agree about not wanting him to starve. Give him dry if he eats dry...it's more important that he eats because the bacteria from his mouth are also poisoning his body. He needs as much nutrients as he can get to help keep him going until you can do the surgery.

[Llamalady]

Should I have him on antibiotics until he's in for surgery??

[tiffers]

We prescribe antibiotics at least a week before a dental surgery, if the teeth are bad enough, and then two week afterwards. Call your vet. It's certainly worth a shot, and be sure to tell them that's he is vomiting.

[Llamalady]

Do I tell him that so I can put him on canned food? Becuase that's the only reason I wanted the anti-nausea stuff because I was trying to change his food. He hasn't puked at all today. I assumed it was because of the canned food I gave him yesterday...

[tiffers]

...I'm kind of confused. Did your vet tell you to put him on canned food?

[special]

Do I tell him that so I can put him on canned food? Becuase that's the only reason I wanted the anti-nausea stuff because I was trying to change his food. He hasn't puked at all today. I assumed it was because of the canned food I gave him yesterday...

What brand of food are you trying? Some canned foods can be very rich and upset any cat's tummy, and Linus is not used to canned food at all.

I'm sure he will be fine with his kibble and you can keep track of how much to be sure he's getting enough.

[tiffers]

You can also stick with the kibble and add just a smidgen of warm water to soften it just a hair...but not make it mushy...that way it's the same food but easier on his mouth.

[Llamalady]

I tried Iams canned food because he's on Iams dry food. The lady at the pet store said it would probably be the easiest transition but boy was she ever wrong... :(

[special]

How is he doing with his kibble?

[Llamalady]

He'll go in an eat for a little bit, then I think he starts hurting and he goes away... He just doesn't seem to be his normal self.

See it's difficult for me because so much of his life has revolved around food. If it was Mandarin we probably wouldn't think about it as much...

[Llamalady]

But I didn't try moistening his food yet. I just wanted to see how he's going to respond first... He's sitting talking to me while I'm on the computer igth now acting like he's hungry...

[special]

He'll go in an eat for a little bit, then I think he starts hurting and he goes away... He just doesn't seem to be his normal self.

...

Aw, I know. His mouth hurts him, so he doesn't want to eat much, poor baby. He'll feel much better once he's had his surgery. I hope you can rustle up some fire wood and/or some extra cash to get it done soon, not just for him but so you can stop worrying about him, too.

I know how it feels, to know your cat isn't feeling his best, and not being able to do anything about it right away. It's awful.

[Llamalady]

He curled up on me for an hour and a half last night. He knows his mommy loves him.

I would sing my Linus song to him when we lived in the ghetto in Mississippi. We had to move like 8 times before we ended up in this apartment for the last 4 1/2 years. But he knows I'll always come home for him. And that I will never leave him and that I will always take care of him. So that is why with that steadfast devotion it is hard for me to wait.

This is my song for my Linus:

I love you Linus and you love me
I have known you from the start
Linus, I can't help you abducted my heart
and no matter where I roam
you're beside me I knooooooooow
I love you Linus and you love me
(you love me)
You knock over the christmas tree
do tricks for treats
and you wake me up at 3am
to chew on my feet
but no matter where I roam,
you're beside me I knoooooow
I love you, Linus and you love me....

[Llamalady]

Mark is amazing!!!!!!! My brother-in-law is loaning us the money so Linus can get his teeth done! I am soooooooooooooo excited!!!!!! Linus is not happy lately and not himself and Thursday he is getting his surgery and I hope I will have my kitty back. My world revolves around my little babies..
On top of that, Mandarin's eye is inflamed and he's on steroid drops. But he was soooooooo sweet when I gave his meds today!
Whiskas chicken selections pouches are Linus's friend right now!!!

[tiffers]

Oh, I'm so glad! Mark is his savior!

Thanks for the update as well, I hope that Mandarin's eye also recovers quickly! nothing like healthy kitties running around!

[special]

Mark is amazing!!!!!!! My brother-in-law is loaning us the money so Linus can get his teeth done! I am soooooooooooooo excited!!!!!! Linus is not happy lately and not himself and Thursday he is getting his surgery and I hope I will have my kitty back. My world revolves around my little babies..
On top of that, Mandarin's eye is inflamed and he's on steroid drops. But he was soooooooo sweet when I gave his meds today!
Whiskas chicken selections pouches are Linus's friend right now!!!

Oh, I'm so happy for you and Linus! I will be thinking of you and him on the 17th.

Be sure to let us know how it goes as soon as you can!

[Julia423]

I don't always chime-in, but I've been reading...

I'm soooo glad you have Mark and his generous offer. I hope all is going well with the food in the meantime.

[Llamalady]

Well Linus doesn't really want to eat his dry food and my husband is not exciting about him eating these pouches but our shifts overlap enough that I give Linus as many of the pouches as he'll eat! :D He had two yesterday and some dry food. The dry food he has that bad reaction to; trots in, looks at food, might take two bites, then he runs out; then he trys it again a few minutes later. So I'm thinking he must be hurting.

And Mandarin, well I hope he doesn't give the eye thing to Linus because he did last year and it would totally bum me out to have to postpone Linus's surgery...

Mandarin's inflamed eye has happened 3 times in his life (this being the third) so I'm not overly concerned, because the steroids tend to make it just disappear but I'm still keeping an eye on it...

[special]

The dry food he has that bad reaction to; trots in, looks at food, might take two bites, then he runs out; then he trys it again a few minutes later. So I'm thinking he must be hurting.

.

My Sweet Pea reacted in a similar way, but to canned food. He would jump as if something bit him, and run away from his dish.

he ate the kibble without chewing, just scooped it up and swallowed, so it was easier and less painful for him.



Mandarin's inflamed eye has happened 3 times in his life (this being the third) so I'm not overly concerned, because the steroids tend to make it just disappear but I'm still keeping an eye on it...

Has Mandarin been tested for Herpes eyes?

[Llamalady]

Mandarin has never been tested for anything. When I got him I took him to the vet and the vet said that some cats just have random inflammation of the eye accompanying an upper respiratory infection, gave me the steroid drops the drops made it go away. He was all better.

Now it being the third time I think maybe next time I should get it checked out, but I would like to know, what is herpes eye and what can the vet do additionally to help my kitty?

[special]

Mandarin has never been tested for anything. When I got him I took him to the vet and the vet said that some cats just have random inflammation of the eye accompanying an upper respiratory infection, gave me the steroid drops the drops made it go away. He was all better.

Now it being the third time I think maybe next time I should get it checked out, but I would like to know, what is herpes eye and what can the vet do additionally to help my kitty?

If he hasn't been tested for FeLV and FIV, I highly recommend it (Feline Leukemia Virus and Feline Immunodeficiency Virus)

Often that's the first thing a vet will do with repeat eye infections, those two tests I mean.

Herpes eye is a virus that many cats harbor latently, and will have outbreaks when there is extra stress in their lives. (your concern over Linus for example)

This virus is included in the FVRRCP shot, also known as "distemper", vaccine

some cats, like my boy, have it very badly.

It can be highly contagious but none of my other cats, gone and current have ever caught it from my Sweet Pea. it is diagnosed with a "swab test", when the cat is having an outbreak the vet puts numbing drops in the eyes and goes in deep for a sample of the gunk his eyes are producing, to test for Herpes.

it's not curable but it is controllable with the supplement L-lysine, 500 mg a day. They now make an l-lysine veterinary paste specific for feline use, but back in the day, people had to buy human pills and crush them, or buy the powder and try to add it to their food, or have it mixed into a suspension fluid and administer orally. (I buy powder and suspension fluid on line and mix it up myself)

My cat who has it, his outbreaks have been controlled greatly with the l-lysine supplement. I really thought he was going to lose his sight it was so bad. The vet I was using tried every drop and ointment, feline and human, and he got so that he couldn't tolerate anything at all in his eyes.

I finally took him to Cornell University Companion Animal Hospital to see a specialist and that's when he was diagnosed. (I have also left that vet who messed about for so long, for this and several other reasons)

The intial response to the l-lysine was dramatic. his eyes were clear and dry within days. He's been on the l-lysine six years now and rarely has outbreaks any more. I've reduced his dose to every other day, for the past year or so.

He used to get outbreaks occasionally, brought on by stress, or seasonal changes and a secondary infection would develop and I would put him on Clavamox, oral antibiotic pills, for a week.

Now he doesn't even need that, if I see he's starting a flare up, I just increase the l-lysine to every day for a couple of weeks, and it goes away.

I highly recommend the FelV/FIV testing, if you haven't had that done, and getting his eyes tested for herpes virus.

[Llamalady]

I must correct myself. I did have the felv/fiv test done on him when I got him. I tested Mandarin when we got him for felv/fiv and it came up negative. Yaaaay!

May I ask how often your kitty has flare-ups? Considering he's five and he's only had this flareup three times I wasn't entirely sure this didn't have to do with allergies. My husband and I are going to vacuum under the bed just in case today.

Oh! So I had a thought... if he has the herpes virus and it is included in his shots, does that perchance mean that the shots made him have a flare up of this disease conceivably? If this is caused by the herpes virus, I'm sure that him going to the vet didn't help matters. He HATES going in the car. I think he's afraid we're not coming back or that we're going to stay in the hotel for another two weeks like when the fire overtook our apartment.

Also if I can ask how much the lysine drops are? I'm not trying to make money always an issue but if I have to go get another part time job to take care of their health I will no matter how bad my husband doesn't want me to have three jobs. If they're cheap enough I don't have to change our lifestyle much, but if they're expensive than I will have to.

Linus got the goopy eye last year (his only time ever) and it went away very quickly. Since he's going through so much stress, how come his eye isn't flared up now?

[special]

Considering he's five and he's only had this flareup three times I wasn't entirely sure this didn't have to do with allergies. My husband and I are going to vacuum under the bed just in case today.

?


It may very well be allergies. Or maybe he has a very *light* case of it, and it only shows up during stress. The only way to know for sure, of course if to have the swab test done, during an outbreak.


Oh! So I had a thought... if he has the herpes virus and it is included in his shots, does that perchance mean that the shots made him have a flare up of this disease conceivably? If this is caused by the herpes virus, I'm sure that him going to the vet didn't help matters. He HATES going in the car. I think he's afraid we're not coming back or that we're going to stay in the hotel for another two weeks like when the fire overtook our apartment.



I don't think the RCCP vaccine can bring on an outbreak, but I don't know for sure, that is a good question, I'll ask my vet about that, when I am in on Tuesday and let you know. A trip to the vet for a cat who stresses badly over car rides could certainly bring on an outbreak of the feline herpes virus.



Also if I can ask how much the lysine drops are?


At my vet a tube of L-lysine gel (or paste, not sure what form it comes in) is $6, but I don't know how long it lasts. I've been buying the L-lysine powder and the suspension fluid on line (two different suppliers) for six years.

It is a supplement so no prescription is needed, but always talk to your vet before starting your cat on anything.

I buy a year supply of each at a time (four bottles of each, powder, and suspension liquid) to save on shipping charges, and, including shipping, it costs me about $120 a year, so broken down it would be $10 a month.

Even though I don't go through an entire bottle, I throw it away and make up fresh every three months, experience has taught me that the solution loses it's effectiveness after three months.



May I ask how often your kitty has flare-ups?


My Red Boy has been taking it for six years. Before he was diagnosed and started on the supplement he had it most of the time, his eyes were so red and swollen and sore and full of discharge, it was just horrible. And it got worse when he developed an intolerance for anything put into his eyes at all. When I started the L-lysine his eyes were cleared up within days.

For the past three years he generally has an outbreak two or three times a year, I notice they are often seasonal, such at just around thanksgiving, and in April.

The outbreaks do not go into secondary infection anymore, he starts with his eye "shedding" a little brown square speck for a few days, then he starts shedding little "white strings", and in the past, next, would come blobs of white discharge and his eye would get very red and slightly swollen, then full blown secondary infection.

Now he is able to shake it off after a few days (and I increase the L-lysine for a few days too.) He rarely goes past the 'white string" stage anymore.

Not all symptoms are alike in every cat, that's why the test is needed to properly diagnose it.

He is nine years old and also has a seizure disorder for which he takes Phenobarbital.(the disorders are not related ) None of my other cats have ever contracted the virus from him, even his special "glued to the hip" companions.

He is due for his RCCP ("distemper") next week (every three years) but my vet and I have been discussing how sick this shot makes him (he becomes ill for several days) and she thinks he will be okay to not have it anymore.

He'll get his annual PureVax rabies shot like always.



I'm not trying to make money always an issue but if I have to go get another part time job to take care of their health I will no matter how bad my husband doesn't want me to have three jobs. If they're cheap enough I don't have to change our lifestyle much, but if they're expensive than I will have to.



I understand about money. It is *always* an issue. After all, the cat's have to eat, right? And we have to eat, to stay healthy enough to care of them, of course.

Like you I don't stint on my cats' care (I have four special needs cats. I did have three but now the latest rescue has decided to have FLUTD along with my four year old) and because of this I am very poor.

What do I care? Who needs new clothes or outside entertainment anyway? <ggg> (my one weakness is books, thank heavens for the public library!) Well many people do, I know and understand, but fortunately I am a homebody and don't. Hiking, my one outside entertainment, is free. (except for the cost of travel, sigh) My cats give me endless joy pleasure entertainment and love.



Linus got the goopy eye last year (his only time ever) and it went away very quickly. Since he's going through so much stress, how come his eye isn't flared up now?

Perhaps Linus's goopy eye was just a speck of something in his eye, or a little cold, not the herpes virus at all.

Of course you can't know for sure about Mandarin either, unless he is tested for it during an outbreak.

I hope I ahve helped you but please feel free to ask me any questions you want. I'm not a vet but have had a lot of personal experience with dental problems and eye problems in cats, plus have done a lot of research.

[Llamalady]

What would you do if it were your cat? Would you just try the steroids, and if it went away not worry about it, or go ahead and test him? The pink part of his eye just gets poofy and he starts gooping brown out of his eye and a little bit of green. I know you said all cats symptoms are different..

Is it possible for Mandarin to have herpes and Linus not to, with them living in a one bedroom apartment together? I worry about the proximity. Maybe I should test them both..

[special]

What would you do if it were your cat? Would you just try the steroids, and if it went away not worry about it, or go ahead and test him? The pink part of his eye just gets poofy and he starts gooping brown out of his eye and a little bit of green. I know you said all cats symptoms are different..

Is it possible for Mandarin to have herpes and Linus not to, with them living in a one bedroom apartment together? I worry about the proximity. Maybe I should test them both..

If Mandarin were my cat I would have him tested. I tend to worry myself sick, and need peace of mind.

For example one of my cats had a sore on her head that I thought was ringworm. With three other cats, all with special health needs, I was horrified. I brought her in, and my vet did the "black light" (addison test I think it's called) test, plus said she didn't think it looked like ringworm.

The test was negative, but I mentioned that I knew that there were some forms of the fungus that didn't show up under the black light. My vet said she was pretty sure it was not ringworm and the send out culture was $95. She knows I don't have a lot of money, but I needed to know for sure, I can't bear uncertainty where my cats are concerned, so I said do the test.

I have four cats currently and none of them have ever caught the herpes virus from my Sweet Pea, nor did another cat, who "raised" him, who has gone to the Bridge.

He is very close to my Senior lady, as close as he was to the one who is gone, (they both raised him together) I mean sleeping mashed together face to face, arms around eachother constantly, even when he was having bad outbreaks. (I also live in a tiny one bedroom apartment)

Neither of them ever caught it from him. Nor have the two more recent younger cats. Lovey cat has been here over 3 years, and my Pudding girl (the one I thought had ringworm) I rescued this past October.

As long as Linus is vaccinated he will probably be okay.

If he begins having symptoms more regualrly than just the one time, then yes, I would have him tested, also, but I think the virus has to be currently active to test, meaning goopy eyes. Not positive about that, though.

Your vet would know.

What I would do, if I was in your situation is, go ahead and get Linus's dental surgery taken care of, and then the next time Mandarin has an outbreak, take him to the vet and ask the vet to test for the herpes virus.

The vet will put numbing drops in the eyes and using a cotton swab on a wooden stick, go deep under the lower lid for a sample. it looks like a horrible procedure, but the cat doesn't feel a thing.

[Llamalady]

That sounds like an excellent idea, because like my husband said, we either have money right now to get Mandarin taken care of or get Linus's teeth done, and unfortunately, Linus's condition is more severe in my opinion... So next time he has a flareup I will be SURE we have money saved up for kitty procedures. I am going to start prepaying the vet $20 a month and build up an account so that way it won't be so painful (money wise) if something happens.

Thank you for letting me know about the communicability of the disease as well. That makes my heart feel a lot better...

Just today and tomorrow and Linus goes in for surgery!

[special]

Hi, I am just back from the vet, for my Sweet Pea's check up (the one who has the herpes eyes)

My vet said a cat cannot DEVELOP herpes from the vaccine as it is not a live vaccine. However, if the cat is carryng the virus, he could possibly have a flare up as his antibodies start working agianst the dead vaccine, unlikely but possible, but it would not herald continuous outbreaks, just a one time thing.

building up a credit balance at the vet is a very good idea. I myself try to always keep a credit balance at the vet, mainly, simply because I am there so often, and it takes forever to check out, which is added stress on the cat, or even if I am just picking up food or medicine it can take a half hour just to wait for my turn to pay for them, so with a credit balance, I can just breeze right back out again.

It's been difficult to keep that credit balance lately, I have spent $1200 (that does not include medications that I get elsewhere) at the vet so far this year (and their fees are not outrageous) and it's only July! I'm not complaining, they are worth any amount of money, but it makes it difficult to keep the credit balance!....however I will continue to keep a credit balance at the vet.

I'll be thinking of Mandarin on Thursday,. be sure to let us know how it goes as soon as you can.

[Llamalady]

I hope Mandarin's eye doesnt' get worse because he's stressed out about Linus.

Actually, to be frank, I think almost every time that we get Mandarin his shots, his eye flares up again... so maybe it IS herpes.... *shrugs*

But first the big trip with Linus...

Thanks for your goodmind... You have mine as well!

[Llamalady]

oops double post

[special]

Thinking of Linus today, do please let us know when you can how he's doing.

[Llamalady]

Goodmind is working!!!!! So far he's a little bit tired today (he was soooooo messed up last night though) and he's being a mush-head. He wants his mama... I'm so glad I took the day off. He's a little stoic today...
They had to take THREE teeth out AND the roots. Ouchy... and the vet said he probably can't eat hard food anymore but He ate at 343 am his whiskas pouches without any problems!!!!!!
Last night he was digging at his face though he's stopped that...

I'm going to curl up with him in bed though. I treasure this time with him...

[special]

Oh, I'm glad Linus is doing so well, thanks for the update! Staying home with him was a good thing to do. He has you for comfort and to make sure he doesn't hurt himself, and you won't be spending the day worrying yourself sick over him.

What pain medicine is he on? He will be in a lot of pain for about three days, especially once the anesthesia wears off, so pain med really is neccessary.

I really don't understand your vet telling you he won't be able to eat dry food anymore. I know many cats with a lot of teeth gone (I have one myself) and many with no teeth at all and they enjoy their kibble just as much as any other cat. In fact my boy eats more kibble than he ever has before, since he had those four extractions (plus two teeth had already disintegrated)

Chunks in pouches really is not that differnt from eating kibble, it still has chunks that might need to be chewed. He may not want kibble NOW, but once he heals he should be fine with it.

Did Linus have FORL? (Feline odonoclastic resorptive lesions) I know you said periodontal disease, but I wonder about the FORL. One way to know if its FORL is, when they have pain, their little jaws make a "chattering" type of movement, involuntarily.

It's all behind him now, yay! You will be amazed at the difference in him once he is free of pain (including when he has a dose of pain medicine) My boy, who's nine, suddenly became a kitten again!

[Llamalady]

My vet's office gave him a shot of morphine before he left, but said they didn't have any pain meds to send him home because he's a cat - if he were a dog it would be a different story. I don't think that's quite right, but he doesn't seem to be hurting. He spends most of his time sleeping, and when he's hungry he comes out and gets me.
As for his dry food, once he heals up again, and if he's interested in it, I'm bonafide going to let him eat it, but I'll also have the pouches. He just WOULDN'T eat his dry food near the time of his surgery. He has sutures and once they heal, maybe he'll want to go back to normal.. or maybe I've ruined him with this whiskas stuff. Whatever makes him happy and keeps him healthy I'm all for!!!! :D
I haven't noticed any chattering, but I will talk to my vet about the FORL. To be honest, I just picked him up and brought him home and tried to get the infernal husband to be quiet and not scare the cat too much. Sometimes my husband intimidates the cat. He doesn't mean to, but sometimes it happens anyways.

Last night he was ROLLLING in the floor just begging for love, but he wasn't coordinated to follow me so he just kept rolling and trying to rub the carpet with his paws.

What a cutie.

More updates to come :D

[special]

My vet's office gave him a shot of morphine before he left, but said they didn't have any pain meds to send him home because he's a cat - if he were a dog it would be a different story. I don't think that's quite right, but he doesn't seem to be hurting. He spends most of his time sleeping, and when he's hungry he comes out and gets me.
As for his dry food, once he heals up again, and if he's interested in it, I'm bonafide going to let him eat it, but I'll also have the pouches. He just WOULDN'T eat his dry food near the time of his surgery. He has sutures and once they heal, maybe he'll want to go back to normal.. or maybe I've ruined him with this whiskas stuff. Whatever makes him happy and keeps him healthy I'm all for!!!! :D
I haven't noticed any chattering, but I will talk to my vet about the FORL. To be honest, I just picked him up and brought him home and tried to get the infernal husband to be quiet and not scare the cat too much. Sometimes my husband intimidates the cat. He doesn't mean to, but sometimes it happens anyways.

Last night he was ROLLLING in the floor just begging for love, but he wasn't coordinated to follow me so he just kept rolling and trying to rub the carpet with his paws.

What a cutie.

More updates to come :D


The "chattering" motion of the jaws would have happened before the surgery, and it is very difficult to notice unless you know what to look for. I'm not a vet of course and can't tell you if Linus's problem was FORL or not (often just called "resorptive lesions") Linus's problem just sounded so much like my Sweet Pea's.

I guess some vets don't like to send home buprenex (morphine) because of drug abuse issues (in humans) my vet fortunately knows I am not a drug user or seller and has no problem sending home premeasured doses of the pain medicine for my cats, when needed.

It does make them quite loopy and goofy! I swear they walk around (or roll around as you described) giggling!

Regarding Mandarin, it's very possible that a trip to the vet can bring on a herpes flare up, but again, there's no way to know for sure until he has one that you can get tested.

I'm so happy things are going better now!

[Llamalady]

He's like a new cat! And he never wants me far away from him, and he's spending a LOT of time buttering me up.

What's funny is I was curled up with Linus yesterday morning in bed (yes I sleep with the furry babies if they want it) and Mandarin tried to come curl up with us and Linus GROWLED at him. I nearly died laughing. Apparently he just wants me and only me... Mandarin's eager for Linus to be all better so he can play with him.

I think Linus is very relieved. I think whatever pain he must be in must be nothing compared to what he has been living with, and of course that makes me feel bad to some extent (again the blaming myself, not knowing stuff) but it also makes me feel so relieved myself because we took him out of being in that much pain!!!

[special]

He's like a new cat! And he never wants me far away from him, and he's spending a LOT of time buttering me up.

What's funny is I was curled up with Linus yesterday morning in bed (yes I sleep with the furry babies if they want it) and Mandarin tried to come curl up with us and Linus GROWLED at him. I nearly died laughing. Apparently he just wants me and only me... Mandarin's eager for Linus to be all better so he can play with him.



How's Linus doing? Are he and Mandarin back to being buddies again?

I think whatever pain he must be in must be nothing compared to what he has been living with, and of course that makes me feel bad to some extent (again the blaming myself, not knowing stuff) but it also makes me feel so relieved myself because we took him out of being in that much pain!!!

I know exactly how you feel. When I found out my Sweet Pea had FORL and had been in pain for at least a couple of months (he gets check ups every six months because of his seizure disorder and phenobarbital use) I was mortified.

And then the poor guy had to wait a couple of months more after that! he'd had a cleaning the year before and if it weren't for the resorptive lesions he would have been able to skip the dental this year.

Anyway, like you say of Linus, once he recovered from the extractions he was a new cat. Back to all his old jokes and Games.

Hope all is well at your house now, and give your brother (in law?) a thank you hug from me!