Rescuing vs. Enabling

[LadyLynn]

Hi everybody. Hey after what Redpeppers went through and some very valid concerns that have been posted concerning the purchasing, trading, and rehoming of birds, and scam artists trying to get you to part with your hard earned cash I though perhaps I might at least try to explain my views and somewhat of the things I've learned about "rescuing and enabling people to buy and sell and trade parrots.

First: way to many people see parrots on every level from the smallest to the largest as "chunk change, an expensive investment, and not purchasing a life...

This troubles me greatly. People breed these birds because of their beauty and they know people want to "buy that stunningly gorgeous bird, so people have assigned a $ value to them.

In this, pet shops are in the business of selling, and making profits, so they generally do not train their clerks to work with birds, nor do they educate them to make sure paying customers who come into the shop and say, I'll buy that bird without any education on them whatsoever just sell, that means any poor bird can become the victim of someone's ignorance from the moment the bird leaves the breeders establishment to the petshop.

Then there is always the person who doesn't want to pay a "full price for an expensive bird, so they go to their so called friend who will sell their own pet bird at a slightly cheaper rate. Usually why is that the bird is expressing unwanted wild behaviors that their humans can't control, and they are fearful or annoyed or have just had it. Then when the exchange is made and the new owner finds out the truth very rarely will the old owner take the bird back, nor give back the money. It is a rare thing for an owner to demand the bird back and give back the money.

So what does that mean for the bird?

It becomes the sad victim, being forced to readjust to new people and new enviornments, sometimes becomes neglected, and the proper nutrition it should get turns out to be straight seeds.

Also handling by every human is different. A petshop owner may be so demanding because of time constraints that he forces the bird to perch on his hand without trying to just coax gently.

Some of these birds flat out end up in the wrong hands. I've read too many stories on Toos.com about abuse. One heart wrenching one was about a drunk who was forever throwing the bird against the bedroom closet, and finally left it to die, and the mans daughter found it nearly dead. It will never be the same, and it's life will probably not be that long now........

So now that comes to the point about effective rescuing or enabling.

There will always be desperately needy birds because of our stupid human ignorance, and greed.

so when it comes to a breeder:
1. If yoiu purchase, or if you are asked to purchase and the breeder sells most of his birds to a petshop, are you enabling the vicius cycle of birds to become abused and mishandled? This question you must ask for yourself.

2. The ordinary average citizen? If he wants to sell you his parrot so he can buy that nice rifle, or make a remodel job, or pay for a long overdue vacation if you buy the bird, how do you know that when he comes home and scrapes together more money if he isn't going to purchase another bird just so he can repeat the Selling the bird again to get cash?

The question becomes is he concerned over the welfare of the bird or not?

This is the reason tHat I understand at least most Sanctuaries, or people who rescue flat out refuse to pay, "ransome for a bird, even if it is in a desperate situation.

However as an average citizen like your conciouns you will always have to make that decision: do I because I know I can indeed rescue that one single bird even though you know the person is going to go right back to purchasing another bird will do it again "Rescue it........ I say that depends on your heartstrings, but at the same time be prepared to get a lot of flac from your fellow rescuers. who care.

for me, I'm not opposed to doing this if and when this ever happened, but for the most part, I've learned enough I can walk away, but at the same time I've also learned to speak up in defense of the birds.

FOr example a local store that is just getting back into selling birds I let the clerk know that they should not be housing a small quaker parakeet, in the standard Parakeet cage they had him in.

Somehow though I believe it fell on deaf ears, but I will continue going up the line until I reach the main boss to let them know that this bird deserves the best care possible.

There's way too much to say here, but I really have to close this for now, but I'll say more later I'm sure.

please add anything you know

This is also why sanctuaries usually say, they will not allow you to foster or adopt if you plan for the birds to breed.

so please keep all of this in mind whenever you go out with a parrot, and a potential purchase on your mind.

[dlaura]

I also want to add that 501 C need to be more regulated and folks who run them shouldn't be allowed to come up with an arbitrary adoption fee. Last week I went to a parrot adoption day at a bank. First time I've ever heard of one of these and I wanted to check it out for several reasons. It was similar to your cat/dog adoption days and in fact there were 3 different shelters there each representing a different species of animal. The woman who had the birds for adoption was asking $560 adoption fee for her non-vetted amazons which from chatting to her it became clear had been turned over to her for free. In my mind that was much to much and I was disappointed to only be able to look at the birds and not really interact to see if there might have been a match. When asked if she needed help at her aviary or ever looked for foster homes she cut me off with no - it is too hard on the birds. It came pretty apparent that she wasn't really looking for homes or maybe this was her first attempt at an adoption day. I don't know -but in my mind it was just another one of those ways to make $$$$$ off the situation. Very sad.

[LadyLynn]

I have something to say about what you said Dlaura, but I have to do a quick errand and when I come back, I'll spill those beans, and it's something that some people may not be aware of, or maybe in brief they do.
Be back shortly

[redpeppers]

It's funny that you post this today. . .That lady with the conures is emailing me again now. I think she is going to end up surrendering them to the rescue even though we won't pay her for them which is good. The president says that actually happens a lot so I guess it's just one of those "if it's meant to be it will be" type things.

[LadyLynn]

ok, sorry about all of my morning interruptions about this very serious thought and subject. It's too important to ignore, so here I go again.

The trouble you are speaking about Diane is the fact that some sanctuaries are, "government, or publicly sanctioned, and approriately licensed to do business, while others are not, and are mascerading about that they are, meaning they will tell you they are fully licensed and insured when indeed they are not, and may do a weird kind of practice as so to speak rescuing birds.

For example locally we have one person claiming to be a sanctuary here in Idaho and is claiming to be licensed and insured when in fact in the entire state of Idaho there isn't any at all.
This person yes, collects birds from whomever surrenders them and then it is my understanding will either ship them off to California to a family business to work in a breeding business, and yet there are others she will set a price for the bird and it's cage, and list it on pet finders.com in hopes of getting money and yes in some ways perhaps get the bird a new and loving home.
My thought is this is not a good screening, and the history of the bird could be put together very sloppily, and a good home placement, I know after encountering one person who claimed they needed to rehome a cherry headed conure the screening, "Sucks," why?
The new owner of the cherry head conure said she'd gotten the conure from this place, but her own life now was currently on the skidds because she is currently going through a divorce.
This poor bird!!!!!

Also, it is my understanding to become a fully licensed and insured sanctuary that people publicly could and should come to trust "it takes ten years to get this................... I understand this from someone associated with a sanctuary.

The others you have to watch out for, Yes Diane are people like this lady you met. she apparently saw $ signs when she suddenly became the proud new owner of "Dumped birds-- rather than those birds being in the hands of someone like me who do not want "dumped birds to continue being "passed around as chump change, you can bet the first person to pull out $500 will be walking away with the first uneducated bum that comes along that thinks he/she wants a bird.

This too in my eyes is an enabler. All you can do is say a prayer and hope that some passing stranger does do 2 things. 1. Purchases the bird to get it away from her, but as the bird is transferred 2. the person gives her a good education and lesson- even in brief about the true nature of what she is doing and that it is truly terrible that she is profitting off the backs of innocent birds who truly don't need to be passed from home to home, and become the unfortunate "fodder and waste," that we humans do to these lovely birds.

Also, in saying this, the trouble we have dlaura is that this woman apparently knew full well that you wanted to truley help these birds, and because it would mean she would have to stop making a "sizable Profit," on these birds she cut you off at the pass.

also please everyone remember, licensed sanctuaries also make mistakes as well.

I can give you two examples that I'm aware of.

1. yes, I happened to state something to someone who posted a cry for help about relocating and rehoming a soldiers many birds. How many? I had no idea. but through channels that I guess I wasn't supposed to know about I found out 30 birds that were from super healthy to somewhat poor conditions were given a brand new lease on life, they were fostered to a new home, all 30 of them. However, because of certain things that happened, I also learned that the owner of the 30 birds was really scamming the sanctuary.
The money, the sanctuary was going to get for adoptions was going to go to help this soldier's family......... They of course told the sanctuary people that they felt their "Privacy was invaded, or the sanctuary betrayed a confidence, but get this, I was already an insider............ that's what drove me crazy.
I consider I was already inside because of my initial email, but I guess because of my additional emails to the same person I was very much an outsider. All I can say is that I hope very much that the 30 birds have gotten some awsome care and some awsome new homes.
I would have a great deal to say about using soldier sob stories when it comes tobirds because my husband's cousin has been in charge of one of the military bases out here, but it's a whole new can of worms that I don't want to go into now.

The second example is that while I talked with a sanctuary person on my front steps when I met her for the first time we were talking about my nanday conures. Apparently if I understood correctly they had placed a Nanday conure in the home of a man who eventually murdered someone in cold blood and they had to take the conure back.......

so yes sanctuaries do make mistakes.
We as individual people will make mistakes
But we must as individuals sort it out what the true nature is.

This is why if I can help it when it comes to a rescue I either have to know if the bird is 1. going to be dumped lock stock and barrell, with no demands of money or anything whatsoever- to me that is true rescue- or these birds would probably be inappropriately disposed of.

2. If you can get the background on a bird, and know beyond question that you are indeed rescueing you know that you are.

3. You must know that the person in question is making little to no profit at all by "selling, sorry even rehoming is negotiated in $ and cents at all. Then you know you are rescuing.

4. If the person is willing to let part of the rehome fee or all of it they demand go into paying the vet for a wellness exam then you know you can live with it and call it a rescue because you know the people are at least caring for the bird.

5. Just don't be afraid to ask questions.

Some excueses people make to guise that they need to rehome a bird
1. I'm allergic
2. I don't have time
3. I just had a baby

$ tags at that point are usually assigned.

so the big question is,
if you come across a bird in need, and depending on who has possession are you enabling someoone to engage in the parrot trade, or are you truly rescuing one very needy precious soul?

[LadyLynn]

Redpeppers, I honestly and whole heartedly from what you have said beileve that that would really be the very best thing in the world for the bird.
1. Have you looked at the sanctuaries mission statement at all? Just curious.

[LadyLynn]

Oh one more very awsome story to share about rescue:
There is a woman, we yes consider her one of our experts on the Nanday Conure forum that has rescued 27 parrots.......

I guess about 3 or 4 years ago she actually had a pet shop ask her to "please sell her birds to them. Even before they sent someone to her home she had one 2 letter word firmly planted in her mind.

when the store sent their representative to find out what she was or was not willing to do I have no idea how she told them, but she said no to them....... she stuck strongly to the rescues.

She also from many of her posts has had several articles written up in Parrot talk..

How awsome is that!

I'm sure when you need a lot of money, and a store offers it, plus more it can get pretty tough to say no, but she certainly stuck to her guns.

[redpeppers]

Redpeppers, I honestly and whole heartedly from what you have said beileve that that would really be the very best thing in the world for the bird.
1. Have you looked at the sanctuaries mission statement at all? Just curious.

I haven't actually seen their mission statement, never really thought to ask. . . We are working on our website right now though and I am sure it will be on there. I will have to post the site once it gets up and running.

[LadyLynn]

Redpeppers, when that mission statement shows up, just please if you are going to share it here, please just sum it up if you can that way you'll avoid any possible entanglements of copyright infringement laws that might be in place.

Other than that get it in writing from those in charge, preferrable the boss, boss that it's ok to cut and paste it here for us all to see.

I sure hope everything I said here is at least helping someone, or at least a few people "grow enlightened a little more.

It was a very rough lesson for me to learn...........

[web-scribble]

It's too bad that this problem isn't more often attacked from the front side - the person who says gee, what a beautiful birdy.

Too many breeders and pet shop owners do not fully explain to unsuspecting new parrot owners that in all likelihood the parrot can and will outlive their owner. After my parents beloved cockatiel died they wanted to get an African Grey. I begged them not to. As much as I love animals I knew that I would end up with that bird sooner or later - not something I wanted to sign up for. (As much as I enjoyed Lucy's songs and chortles, I am more of a fuzzy/cuddly pet lover and did not want to be responsible for such a large bird on my own.)

And when the prospective pet owner asks do they bite, the pet store owner or breeder should be required to say not only yes but to further explain that even a small parrot has the ability to bite a finger off. They should also have to disclose that this is a very loud animal and one not suitable for apartment and condo dwellers.

This is one area where I think more education and regulation is needed. Bringing a parrot into your home is more like adopting a child than adopting a kitten and it just seems like parrots have become even more of a disposable pet than cats and dogs.

Have you seen The True Parrot (is it one of yours?)- I think that site should be mandatory reading for anyone considering bringing a bird into their home.

Any rescue organization that pays for animals is doing much more harm than good. Not only does it generate folks like your rifle buyer, it also encourages pet napping and other nefarious behavior to obtain animals to pawn.

[LadyLynn]

HOnestly it would be a help if the government required "strict regulation of the sale of all pet parrots.......

won't happen though

every store should be required to "educate their customer about any bird
if a customer purchases a bird the customer should not be allowed to take the bird immediately until 1. The person who purchased gets a brief education similar to the classes most sanctuaries require before taking the bird home


and of course what kind of post would this be if I didn't leave this link here for some "unsuspecting new bird owners who are off to the pet shop to buy a bird.

Please please, look through this site and investigate it thouroughly and think twice, perhaps more before you become the proud new owner of a bird that you may in short find that you really and truly cannot take care of.

http://www.mytoos.com

[Macawpower58]

Mytoos.com should be a must read for everyone wanting a cockatoo.

It is an eyeopening site, sad but states things clearly and truly.

[LadyLynn]

I agree 100 %. It's ugly and brutal, but the truth is the truth.
It not only startled me the first time I visited that site but made me quite literally sick as well.
I've also decided to post this little tidbit of info "i'm uncertain about it, it could be "CONTROVERSIAL," but it's one of those things people must way in their mind about sanctuaries as well.

Do not get me wrong I do believe foster parrots has done a great deal of good and probably still is. I also confess at this posting I have not read through this thread yet, but will shortly.. it could simply be some misinformation as well. Who knows?

To view the thread go to:
http://forums.manhattanbirdclub.com/tool/post/luciedove/vpost?id=2775043

Subject: Are sanctuaries only for the rich?
Message:
Have you looked lately to the price tag of giving a parrot to a sanctuary like "Foster Parrots" in Massachusetts. If you have a bird that is not a good "pet" then to place them in a sanctuary it is probably going to cost youat least$25,000.

On the other hand, if you put the bird down, it will cost you about fifty bucks plus burial/cremation.

Foster Parrots uses Jane Goodall's comments to further their cause. Shame on you, Jane Goodall. To save a parrot, it's gonna cost at least $25,000. The whole parrot sanctuary idea is a joke.

Sanctuaries....only for the rich.

[Macawpower58]

It's an interesting discussion, but I'd hesitate to make a judgment on the information there.

[LadyLynn]

Sancutaries, I'm sure will always be a point of much "Controversy,"
so the question is for each person who must rehome a bird is
1. Is it the proper sanctuary for this bird?
2. for the rescuer, do you like the sanctuaries policies.


As per Foster parrots, if I read some of how they are organized and understood it a few years ago, perhaps it has changed was that once a parrot comes to live there it is forever in it's new home in as natural setting as they can possibly make it,, and those who want to adopt can, but only by bringing toys , treats, and come to spend some quality time with the bird. Perhaps I read this information wrong? Too me you couldn't ask for the parrot to be in a much better situation.

As a person who's rescued 5 birds, yes I definately have some thoughts about how to sort out if I'm truely rescuing or following my heart and conciouns..............