Teaching the Difference Between Play & Punishment

[e1beth1]

How do you teach your dog to understand the difference between play and punishment. As an example, yesterday morning Kaylee was being a holy terror, picking on the cats, getting in the litter box and the last straw was pooping of the floor just after when came in from potty. In a strong tone (not yelling) I told her she was a bad girl. Now, when she knows she's been bad she'll dive under our bed but usually I can pull her back out. Well, instead she decided it was time to play, hunched down under the bed and started barking and growling at me like it was time to play. 20 minutes later when I finally got hold of her collar and put her not so nicely in her kennel I was completely irrate. I don't want to yell at her but I don't seem to have the deep controlling tone that my husband has (he can make her stop in her tracks in piddle herself by just changing the tone of his voice). How do I make her understand when I'm being serious? :confused:

[That_girl]

I think at that point, you just need to walk away. Dogs shouldn't be punished for accidents in the house anyway.

If she does hide under the bed, leave her be. The best reinforcement for bad behavior or dogs is to ignore them. Dogs are social creatures and crave attention. If your dog hides under the bed, leave her there. That's the best 'punishment' of all.

[_Lisa_]

I agree with Krystal. I also wouldn't use the crate as punishment since you don't want her to have a negative association with the crate.

And you CAN be just as firm with your dog as your hubby, but don't give your pup more credit than she deserves. Calling her a "bad girl" makes sense to you, but may not to her! Just a firm "NO" should do, and in a deeper range than you normally speak.

For my over-excited dog that sometimes is super over-the-top, I also make her "sit" & "stay" anytime she is too excited. She's pretty good about staying, but if she gets up to move I just put her back in the sitting position & walk away again (I don't give the command twice, nor do I give the hand signal more than once.) After she calms down I say "OK!" and release her from the sitting/staying position. It usually works.

[e1beth1]

If she does hide under the bed, leave her be. The best reinforcement for bad behavior or dogs is to ignore them. Dogs are social creatures and crave attention. If your dog hides under the bed, leave her there. That's the best 'punishment' of all.

Well, I would like to, except that when she goes under there to "pout" she starts eating the feet on the bed. :(

Also, when she gets over active in the house I do make her sit or lay down, but we're still working on the "stay" concept. :) I didn't really punish her for the accident, it was just the last thing in a string of bad behavior that morning that I was willing to put up with. We do use the kennel crate as her time out area and she doesn't seem to associate it with bad behavior cause she'll get right back in when it's time for bed or when I head off for work, I guess that means that's not working too well either. :( We are working hard to adjust ourselves to the ignore concept. Sometimes I don't think you have to train your dog as much as you have to train yourself.

[_Lisa_]

Consistency is always key when teaching a dog anything! Also, consider setting her up for success, keeping her out of situations that could get her in trouble. I always give my dogs a chew bone or toy, or a kong with peanut butter, to keep them busy when I need them to stay out of the way, calm, and quiet. Works like a charm!

[Malteluv]

Not sure if my comment will be of any help but I believe I am lucky with Yuki. If he does something he is not supposed to I look him in the face and say "I'm not speaking to you!" and turn my head away from him and even move and oh boy does he get the picture. Of course he sulks, but eventually he comes to me with a face that says I'm sorry.

When it comes to Kaya, well, I am in the midst of trying different approaches but i find that sometimes just telling her to stay in one place where no one else is usually does it for me.

[ferJenna]

I like everybody's advice. Maybe when you're telling her NO, it's all in facial expression, too. All I have to do is give April the evil eye, and she KNOWS. Just look menacing and practice ignoring her. I think she'll catch on mighty quick.

[e1beth1]

When I'm at my b-i-l's house and their big Golden Retriever misbehaves, I'll grab him by the muzzle, looking him right in the eyes and tell him to stop in a firm tone. It works on him and I've had some success with it on Kaylee, but it ususally doesn't curb her bad bahavior for more than a few minutes. I'm going to keep working at it and I appreciate all the advice. Thanks!

[wishbone]

I like everybody's advice. Maybe when you're telling her NO, it's all in facial expression, too. All I have to do is give April the evil eye, and she KNOWS. Just look menacing and practice ignoring her. I think she'll catch on mighty quick.

Definitely, I just about to search advice about my cousin's situation like this and there it is with great advices. So far I just I've just advised her to train her dog with NO commmands, to let her dog realize who's the boss.

[theresa92841]

I usually make a sharp sound with my voice very loudly. "Uh-uh". Instead of no. Mainly because it is not something that I would use for any other reason. And then I would either ignore my dog or re-direct her to do something that I can praise her for. I think many dogs would think you are playing if you are chasing them, so I would avoid doing that except for play.

I'm not real big on using the kennel crate as a "time-out" for the dog. especially if you want her to continue to view it as her place and a good place to go. At some point she might make the connection that it is a bad place and then you will have the issue of dealing with that.

In order to keep her from going under your bed, block off the area with boards so that she cannot go under. Then you won't need to drag her out.

And then you can try also putting nasty tasting stuff on the bed legs.

[Macawpower58]

How do you teach your dog to understand the difference between play and punishment. As an example, yesterday morning Kaylee was being a holy terror, picking on the cats, getting in the litter box and the last straw was pooping of the floor just after when came in from potty. In a strong tone (not yelling) I told her she was a bad girl. Now, when she knows she's been bad she'll dive under our bed but usually I can pull her back out. Well, instead she decided it was time to play, hunched down under the bed and started barking and growling at me like it was time to play. 20 minutes later when I finally got hold of her collar and put her not so nicely in her kennel I was completely irrate. I don't want to yell at her but I don't seem to have the deep controlling tone that my husband has (he can make her stop in her tracks in piddle herself by just changing the tone of his voice). How do I make her understand when I'm being serious? :confused:

First thing I'd like to mention, is Kaylee doesn't realize you are upset at all of the above mentioned things she did wrong. To you it may seem like a long streak of misbehaving, but to her, the cats, and the litter box are out of her mind by the time she pottied in the house. Also, if you happened to go to her a few moments after the accident, that to, is out of her mind.

To sum it up, even if she knew you were angry, she had no idea why.

Are the cats always off limits? You can't laugh today at her antics, and scold tomorrow. It's confusing to the dog. Your best bet is to teach her to go to a place to relax on command. A large dog pillow or throw rug, is great for this (great for travel also). A word such as 'place' would mean to go and relax on her pillow, keep special toys for these times. This way you can regulate when playing with kitty gets on your nerves. Make sure you also teach her a release word, that lets her know it is ok to leave her pillow/place. Start for very short periods of time, and slowly work to make them longer.

As for the potty accident, that is what it was, and not a reason for scolding.

Litter boxes are also something that is self-rewarding, and very hard to keep a determined dog away from. Try a box with a kitty size hole in it, to thwart Kaylee. I also agree on blocking the bed from her.

You mentioned that scolding face to face only works for a second. That's fine, dogs are not like people where they'll sit and think about something for an amount of time. Even a moment of submission or subdued behavior is really all you need. Dog's live in the moment, and do not think about behavior they did before.

I can't remember if Kaylee is a puppy, but it sounds like it. If so, expect small successes, with lots of backsliding.

As Therese and ferjenna said, a sharp sound, or a simple 'no', is best for scolding. I use 'ah'. Sharp, short, kind of like a bark. It is to catch their attention, and means to cease whatever behavior they are doing.

Remember though, dog's will resume the interrupted behavior, especially if they find it fun, if not redirected.

I have one question. Why does she dive under the bed, when she believes she is bad? If you call her when she's bad, then scold. Stop. Only call for praise. Even a bad dog that comes when called, must be praised, no matter how angry you are. Always go to a misbehaving dog. No matter how long it takes, and no matter how far.

[SweetPea]

i think all the above are great advice, esp macawpower's.

i learned you CAN NOT punish the dog at all..

ignore bad behavior and PRAISE the good! if she's chewing on her bone contently and being good, tell her so.

you also CAN NOT even "correct" a behavior AFTER the fact. ie. If she has already pooped in the house....too late. You missed your chance. Scold at her adn you'll confuse her more. All she'll know is....she's mad there's poop right there...not that I pooped in the house... She might even go about soiling in your house in "hidden" places to try to conceal it.... which will frusturate both of you even more....

only way you can "punish" the dog persay, is when she is DOING the actual soiling, you stop her mid act by a quick clap of the hand and taking her outside RIGHT away and praising when she goes. That's the FARTHEST you can go in "punishing" a dog.

eta: if she's doing something you dont want her to do, just distract her with a clap of the hand and a curt NO then tell her somethign you DO want her to do that she KNOWS. Like, sit, or fetching a toy and then praise her for the good things!

[xpalaboyx]

I think at that point, you just need to walk away. Dogs shouldn't be punished for accidents in the house anyway.

If she does hide under the bed, leave her be. The best reinforcement for bad behavior or dogs is to ignore them. Dogs are social creatures and crave attention. If your dog hides under the bed, leave her there. That's the best 'punishment' of all.

yeah... i also agree... you should ignore them or leave them behind for them to learn that its a punishment and not another play time...

[e1beth1]

We're working on getting rid of the upstairs kennel (for night sleeping). She didn't have any accidents in the tent this weekend and has been doing well at home. So we've given her a bed and blankie which is where she's been directed to upon bad behavior. Unfortunately I can't cover the litter boxes, 3 of my cats won't use it if it's covered, we just need to keep a close eye on her when she's out. As for chasing the cats it's simply not allowed. She's also not allowed on the bed or furniture as these are designated kitty safe zones. Overall I believe we've discovered that she needs more activity then she's getting, it's difficult for us to estimate because she's still getting over her kennel cough (she's had a relapse) and some days she seems really wore out after a walk and others she's still ready to go. She ran herself stupid this weekend and ended up sleeping all day Sunday, she's been much calmer in the house. Like I said, it's a learning experience for us more than I think it is for her but we'll get it all figured out. :)

[Hobbes1]

Oh man, I feel for you e1beth1. We have a similar problem with Hobbes, our male Husky, in that he never seems to understand the line between play and punishment.

The only thing I've tried with some success is when he gets really crazy, I'll grab him by the scruff and gently force him to lay down. I know many people don't believe in Cesar Milan's forced submission techniques, but I have found that this one usually works fairly well.

Additionally, with the whole ignoring technique, sometimes to punctuate the point that I am mad I will take all his toys and bones and put them out of his reach. As soon as he calms down, he gets his toys back, which serves as reward for his good behavior.

Good luck!

[Macawpower58]

elbeth, I'm glad it's getting better. Sometimes I believe exercise is a miracle cure. Young dogs have so much energy, they can't figure out what to do to keep themselves amused. Exercise is a huge help. Most do calm down with age. I'd continue teaching her the blanket area. I'd use it for all kinds of times, not only when she's bad. You really don't want her to develop a negative association with it. A new chew toy, and the 'place' command, will help to instill it's not a bad area to have to hang out in.

Hobbes, the alpha roll that Cesar does is disliked for one reason. With the wrong dog, and a novice owner, it can be dangerous. An owner who misjudges their dog's dominance can get a nasty bite, usually in the face. Their are many, and better ways to establish your dominance over your dog.

[e1beth1]

Well, she peed down the floor grate (the old floor furnace is now the air intake for our gas furnace) in front of us yesterday evening. We took her out to finish peeing and told her to lay down on her blanket which she did without any trouble. 10 minutes later when we were going to tell her she could get up, she was sound asleep. :) I like that much better than putting her back in her kennel and she doesn't get as worked up either.

Hobbes1-We do occasionally use that technique on Kaylee when she's really really wound up and it works pretty good but like Macawpower58 said, the downside is you put yourself in as an easy target. I've been nipped in the face and had my nose cracked a few times from her swinging around at me. Because I'm only 5' tall I have to do it and distance myself in the process until she finishes calming down. So, I like the method but use it carefully. I have nothing agaisnt Cesar Milan though, his techniques and practices have been a godsend to my brother in law and his 4 big dogs. They've had so much agression trouble between their 2 big males and they are both doing much better.