power struggle over couch!

[boocats]

Hello Everyone, this is my first post so bare with me! I have a big puppy, about 75lbs, part pyrenese, anatolian shepherd and black lab. We are having some serious power struggles over the couch. The only time the puppy (Tucker) wants on the couch is when we are on it! He will try to slyly, sneakily, nudge us all off the couch! If the kids are on the couch (8 and 9) he just walks over them! He's also a little bitty - nothing works! I've tried a squirt bottle, treats, and physically pulling/pushing him off. He is a stubbord dog! I've heard that the sprays and gadgets only work about half the time. Anybody out there have some good doggy psychology that I can work with?! I realize this is now a power struggle more than teaching him obeidence but how do you win a power struggle?! Anything will be welcomed! He is neutered.

[Macawpower58]

Anatolian's can be very dominant dogs. Labs can be stubborn, not sure about the Pyrenees temperament.

I'd suggest getting a handle on this pup now. With the Anatolian in the mix, you want to be seen as leader, the sooner the better.

First, forbid him the couch. Forbid him all furniture until he knows his place in the family hierarchy. He is bottom rung. He is going to be a big boy. Do not allow him to try and push anyone, anywhere, ever. The children are above him. You need to set the rules though, and see that they are enforced.

If he gets on the couch, drag him off. Do it with a 'phooey', or a sharp 'ah' sound. Do it every single time. If he approaches the couch, stop him before he gets on. Your correction should be relevant to his behavior towards you. If your words/sounds do not give him pause, then he is not seeing you as pack leader. Be consistent. Make him sit, before eating. Sit before going outdoors, sit before anything he wants. Make him earn his pleasures.

Gadgets do not work. Make rules. What he is, and is not allowed to do. Enforce them. Enforce them every single time. Do not allow the kids to invite him up. They must follow the rules you set. I'd not let them do any enforcing though, unless this dog is very tolerant, a nip could ensue if they challenge him.

If need be, keep a short handle on his collar (when your with him), to make moving him easier.

[kurikim]

I totally agree with making him sit/stay before he gets ANYTHING he wants. Sit/stay before treats, going outside, going on walks, food, etc. Remember that what you say is law.

But I'd also consider enrolling in some puppy or begining trainer classes. Training your dog can be a great way to form a bond with them while learning how to assert your dominance. With a dog that's going to get as big as yours is, that's going to be very important.

[xpalaboyx]

Dont let him on the couch and also to all furniture. Your pet should know that the children and you are above him...

[boocats]

Great advice about making him sit for everything, we'll try that! We are in dog classes, using the positive approach. Treats for everything, the problem is that he is only so - so about the treats. I've got turkey hot dogs and string cheese and I'm handing them out like crazy and he's still in a "whatever" mode! The dog trainer suggested changing his food to a corn-free food, because corn is like throwing gasoline on a fire. Whatever bad behavior he's doing will be "fed" by the corn in his diet. Has anyone heard that before?

[Macawpower58]

'The corn made him do it'? lol.......Nope, that's a new one on me!

I do agree a corn free food is better for your pup though. Corn is a cheap filler used by dog food companies, with no real benefit.

Positive training is great for teaching new behaviors. For teaching respect for you, it has no benefit. For his couch rebellion, positive training is going to do nothing (IMO). He already knows you want him off, if he is not listening, then it is pure hardheadedness.

If your child refused to go to bed, after repeated commands, do you offer him/her a cookie? No.......you enforce going to bed.

Same with a pup. You can't enforce an unknown command, such as down, until the dog knows it well. When it does know it well, and refuses to lie down, a cookie is not going to cut it. At some time, the ole "I said it, you do it" logic comes in. Treats are for teaching behavior, learned behavior done well, and reinforcing a behavior the dog is trying to do. They are not for a "please get off the couch" attitude.

For the positive training, try a tug, or ball. See if his toy drive is better than his food drive. I prefer training with a toy, I do use treats for certain things though.

[kurikim]

Also, try rationing your treats. I had the same problem with Winn when I started training her. She just was not very interested in treats, and she didn't particularly care for toys either. XP

I made sure to get a wide variety of treats, and I stopped treating her every single time she did something right. Instead I'd treat her some of the time, and some of the time I'd just love up on her. On walks and such I'd do neither. I figured continuing the walk would be her reward. I also only give her 'people' food when we're out in a store on very rarely at home. Otherwise, only dog treats (though I did make some homemade ones for her). She's done a lot better, because she knows that that might be her only chance at that particular treat for the next few weeks.

Also, I've found that she likes her treats more frozen, and rawhide bones and the such can make a good motivator. Get out the bone, make him do his routine, then let him have to bone; but make sure to take it away in about 3 minutes. That will let him know that bones are rare and special treats, and it will enforce your dominance because you're allowed to take away food from him.

Oh, and you can try this out too. When you go for a walk, make him sit/stay. Then put the leash on, open the door, and walk outside all while he continues to stay. If he moves give immeadiate correction. He must stay, and you get to go out the door before he does. Do this every time to get into a routine. I like it because I never have to fight Winn to get the leash on or get out the door, and while I'm not convinced this is true I know that many believe that leaving the house before your dog enforces your dominance. Again, no treats for this trick, the treat is that he gets to go outside.

[lindsayanng]

really, if you can, i suggest you watch the dog whisperer. A lot of the advice that has been given here is about the same as the dog whisperer would do, but this way you could see it in action. Its on the National Geographic channel, or you can get it on DVD. We have learned SOO much from watching that, and with a big stubborn dog like yours, you are GOING to need his to be calm and submissive to you otherwise he WILL take over your house..

it is basically a lifestyle change for the family.. no more babying the cute puppy.. you (all) have to dominent over him.

[EmmaGirl]

He is in training...this a good thing!! As to the couch...he sees himself as equal to you. When he jumps, crawls, or whatever, onto the couch....promptly stand up, fold your arms and turn your back to him. He's attention seeking....don't give in to his demands. The pack leader is the one who dictates who goes where. When he gets down sit and reward him! If he repeats the behavior...up you get again, arms folded and back to him. When he's not getting attention, he will get down...praise and reward!

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[kurikim]

I do want to caution you with Ceaser Millan's (The Dog Whisperer) techniques. Take everything with a grain of salt. He'll occasionally perform techniques, such as the alpha roll, which are thought to be ineffective and dangerous by a lot of professional trainers. Even those that like the technique will admit that only professionals who know exactly what they're doing should attempt it. So while a lot of what he says is great (I totally agree that dogs should get plenty of exercise), some of what he does may not be the right thing for you or your dog. If you do decide to check him out just use your common sense and don’t take what he says as law.

[lindsayanng]

Huh.. i havent seen the alpha roll in ANY of his shows yet.. what is it??

The other stuff he teaches though, about going out the door first, eating first (even if its pretend) and the all around energy he suggests just makes a lot of things click for most people..

I think the MAIN goal with Cesar is to learn to treat your dog like a dog, and not like an equal, and you will have a hppy house.

[kurikim]

It's basically throwing or pushing a dog on it's back and holding it there to assert your dominance. Here's the wikipedia version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_roll

You can see what Ceasar has to say about it in this article:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/07/060731-dog-whisperer_2.html

If you google Ceasar Millan Alpha Roll you'll find plenty of pre-existing arguements on it. Many people think it borders on cruel, I think if you've got anything larger than a poodle you're asking to get bitten. What I really worry about is people seeing it slightly out-of-context on his show and using it when it's not needed or using it dangerously. There's a couple other techniques he uses, like flooding, that are fairly controversial too.

I do think the key components of his message are valid though. A dog is a dog and will act like a dog, be the leader of the relationship, make sure they get exercise... all good ideas.

[boocats]

Hi all!

You all have very good advice and I appreciate everyone's comments! Tucker is doing much better on the whole couch thing although he still doesn't see the kids as above him in pack. He continues to try to get them to play with him by tugging at their clothes with his teeth.

We have established a pretty good routine but obviously, consistency is my biggest problem. It's hard to keep a consistent firmness and that's what I need to work on. He still trys for the couch but the minute I pick up the squirt bottle (which is a dark cobalt blue), he's looking at me for my next cue...which is a big improvement for us. Getting him to look at me to recieve the command was near impossible but is slowly getting better.

He does bark at every noise at night until bedtime and I realize that it's because he's restless. I have cut back his food so that I can give him part of his food in his puzzle toys, I have the kongs and dice and busy boy, and he loves those but once their done, he goes back to barking.

Any thoughts on how to curb the barking? My husband wants to get a shock collar and that is just not acceptable to me at all!

Thanks for your help!
Diana