Dog Breeding!!!

[ambernd]

hi this is amber and i have a 12 1/2 week old black/rust female min pin named kitty(lol)...and a male that is blk/rust that is 16 weeks named gatico(spanish for kitty LOL)and my sister has a 16 week old red min pin named Chico... When Kitty goes into her 2nd cycle i am going to breed her with my sisters dog and they are both purebred healthy wonderful dogs... I am wanting to know everything about breeding..... like i here people talking about whelping boxes i know what they are but i don't know what one looks like so if someone can sort of help me picture one i'de apreciate it...and for people that have bred before how much is a vet bill like to have the pregnant dog checked up on every so often?? :confused:

please don't post anything saying that i shouldn't breed them because i have thought alot about it and i have finally made up my mind... I know what im getting into and i know its alot of work but im ready for it....


i really have no idea how to breed them or anything...do you just put them in a room and let them at it or what?? i know it has to be on like their 12 day of heat or something.... and once she is preganant then how much and how often do you need to take her to the vet and look after herand stuff???

please post back if you know anything about breeding....or just random pregnancy stuff i don't care i just need some info!!!

THANK YOU!!!

[NewfieGrl]

I'm not so sure you are going to get people on here who are going to be very supportive. Your pups are way to young to even know if they are breeding quality. The cost of being a responsible breeder goes way beyond having a pregant dog checked at the vet. Showing for conformation to make sure your dog fits the breed standard is only one of so many things that you should think about. Then there are all the health clearances both male and female need to go through before they are bred. Did your breeder do these with your pups? Are you absolutely positive you are not going to be passing on a genetic defect, maybe something that you don't see in your dog, but may see in the pup?
How much have you studied about breeding? Do you have a good, responsible breeder who can mentor you and teach you all the right things to do? Are you choosing the right stud, matching up dogs correctly so you are bringing out the best possible qualities of your breed? Good, reputable breeders don't just breed. They study lines, they are involved in health issues, rescue, and so much more. They know how to match two dogs perfectly. There are alot of posts on the dog section here that you should really read carefully. If back yard breeders and puppy mills were eliminated we would see such a huge reduction in dogs who end up in shelters and dogs with genetic and health problems. The goal of a good breeder is to better the breed and continuosly strive to do so. They make very little money as they spend most of it on showing,health clearances, health clearances for the pups, and so on. I'm sure for many it's easy to get caught up in wanting offspring from their dogs, but they can truly harm a breed by doing this.
I hope you read some of the posts here in the forum. They are filled with so much information.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[ambernd]

well according to the breeder she doesn't have any defects in her lines and i believe that kitty's mother was used for show. I have been stuying about breeding nonstop for about a month now.

One reason why i posted this is so i can find someone who can walk me through all of this. I am using my sisters dog for stud and his mother was used for show also and his lines are clean.

[NewfieGrl]

Here is a link to another section in the forum that is filled with information. Please read it carefully.
http://forums.petlovers.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10169
P.S. A female shouldn't be bred until she is 2 years old. That is the age that most health clearances are issued.

Good luck.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[Jennicat]

Not having defects in the line doesn't guarantee a show quality dog. From each litter, 1-2 dogs (if it's a large litter, and you're lucky) will typically be show quality, and the rest will be pet quality, and unsuited for showing or breeding.

[NewfieGrl]

Not having defects in the line doesn't guarantee a show quality dog. From each litter, 1-2 dogs (if it's a large litter, and you're lucky) will typically be show quality, and the rest will be pet quality, and unsuited for showing or breeding.

So true. I was thinking about that after I posted. I'm glad you wrote it. First, I would be very suspect of the breeder who placed the dog. Very unresponsible not to place a pup on a limited registration or co-ownership with a guarantee that the dog will be shown to a championship and then all the proper testing done before, during, after breeding. This does not sound like a breeder who cares about the future generations of her kennel.

Here is an example of what Jennicat brought up. I co-own my Newfie pup Koda with his breeder. His grandfather took Best in Show at Westminster in 2004. His father just took Best of Breed and 3rd place in the working group last week at Westminster. His mother is a Champion and has her WD title. There is not one dog in several generations of his pedigree that is not a champion AND have all health clearances recorded, for all to see, including DNA. Does that mean that he should be bred? ABSOLUTELY NOT. That will all depend on how HE does showing and if he passes all his health clearances. At that point the decision will be left to his breeder, because I don't have enough knowledge about matching male and female together to produce the best possible qualities in his breed. Although he's turning out pretty nice there is always that chance that he will not show well. There were other pups from his litter that were deemed pet quality and were sold on a limited registration by my breeder, meaning they had to be spayed/neutered and litters could not be registered with the AKC. You never know what you will get, as far as show/breeding quality, out of a litter. You may get 1, 6, 2 or NONE.
If your breeder deemed your pup to be show/breeding quality she would have kept it herself or placed it with someone who was required to show the dog to championship. Breeders who truly care about their lines are very very strict when it comes to these types of things. Breeders who are back yard breeders, who are not all that concerned with the quality and FUTURE of the breed and their goal is not the better the breed don't care who breeds their offspring or what happens to the quality, genetics, health of their lines. Please note the phrase FUTURE of the breed. That is what counts the most.
Unfortunately these are the type of breeders who perpetuate the number of dogs we see in shelters. The numbers are staggering and it's very sad.
Micehle
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[BeagleButt]

I'm a very odd duck out when it comes to breeding and most of what I think will probably get plenty of people ticked off at me.

While I am interested in seeing our beautiful breeds go on with great temperaments and physical conformations, for the moment I do object to them being the only one's who can breed without being given the evil eye.

First off, it's well known that the "failures" of the show ring end up as pet dogs. Given the stats I just received here, those are some pretty poor odds and as such produce quite a surplus of dogs. Because of this I really don't have a problem with people breeding so-called "mutts", for the purpose of creating great family dogs, if they take all the normal accepted precautions for placing their dogs in good homes and having a provision for taking them back if anything (and I do mean anything) happens and the owner is unable to keep them. Given the stats above the difference is only 1-2 dogs that won't go into the show ring vs the pedigree breeder who will have a couple for showing.

The reason I don't mind is this: If you are being responsible for your puppies and making allowances for them to be returned to you if necessary, how many dogs could you breed before having to stop to allow room for the potential (albiet unlikely) return of the dogs. Once? Twice? Not much more, b/c even if you have the land for it, you won't have the time.

There are plenty of irresponsible people both breeders and dog owners. Who shouldn't breed their dogs, but do. Shouldn't own a dog, but buy one anyway creating an artificial demand for dogs that is then quickly supplied.

That being said, breeding info can be found in standard dog books, but you are right, you really want a mentor. I am not one, however. I am hoping one day to get into dogcarting(sledding) and possibly showing Siberian Huskies (and perhaps going into breeding from there), but that day is long in the future and bank account. :rolleyes:

[Jennicat]

My only problem with your stance, BeagleButt, is that we are currently euthanizing 9 dogs a minute in the United States. Most of t hem are "mutts" and great family dogs There's no shortage of them.

[ambernd]

thank you everyone for replying but none of this is helping me out...i said that i had made up my mind about it and i want to know more about breeding not what i can do to mess up the lines...besides min pins only have 2-4 on average and i already have 3 people wanting to buy one....and she's not even pregnant yet...i know some of you are probably angry about people breeding like this but the puppies are going to family members and nobody else.. ..but anyway i just want to sort of get walked through the process of breeding, pregnancy, birth, and raising of puppies...thank you everyone for repling.....

[NewfieGrl]

I'm a very odd duck out when it comes to breeding and most of what I think will probably get plenty of people ticked off at me.

While I am interested in seeing our beautiful breeds go on with great temperaments and physical conformations, for the moment I do object to them being the only one's who can breed without being given the evil eye.

First off, it's well known that the "failures" of the show ring end up as pet dogs. Given the stats I just received here, those are some pretty poor odds and as such produce quite a surplus of dogs. Because of this I really don't have a problem with people breeding so-called "mutts", for the purpose of creating great family dogs, if they take all the normal accepted precautions for placing their dogs in good homes and having a provision for taking them back if anything (and I do mean anything) happens and the owner is unable to keep them. Given the stats above the difference is only 1-2 dogs that won't go into the show ring vs the pedigree breeder who will have a couple for showing.

The reason I don't mind is this: If you are being responsible for your puppies and making allowances for them to be returned to you if necessary, how many dogs could you breed before having to stop to allow room for the potential (albiet unlikely) return of the dogs. Once? Twice? Not much more, b/c even if you have the land for it, you won't have the time.

There are plenty of irresponsible people both breeders and dog owners. Who shouldn't breed their dogs, but do. Shouldn't own a dog, but buy one anyway creating an artificial demand for dogs that is then quickly supplied.

That being said, breeding info can be found in standard dog books, but you are right, you really want a mentor. I am not one, however. I am hoping one day to get into dogcarting(sledding) and possibly showing Siberian Huskies (and perhaps going into breeding from there), but that day is long in the future and bank account. :rolleyes:

Good post and alot of what you say is correct. But, the failures of the show ring should be spayed or nuetered and it should be in the buyers contract. That's what set the good apart from the bad. And they should end up in good pet homes. So many of them don't. That is the fault of the breeder. Many breeders will do only co-ownerships with what they consider there show quality stock. They want to have some measure of control over what happens with that dog, and they should, while at the same time putting that dog into a nice family home environment. It's the breeders who are not taking the measures to make sure that there buyers are spay/nuetering that end up with the back yard breeder label. That's how inexperienced people, who don't know about matching, health testing, etc, start breeding from their stock.
If I ever decided to become a breeder (which I wouldn't because I know what all of that entails), my breeder would never allow me to just throw my dogs together. That is where mentoring, teaching, etc. come into play. A good breeder will do that. They are not going to live forever and they want to make sure those who are interested in becoming responsible, quality breeders and learn everything that can possibly be learned about bettering the breed. Back yard breeders and puppy mills just sell dogs and don't care who breeds them. They don't follow the buyers and the buyers don't feel comfortable contacting them with questions, issues, etc.

If I ever called my breeder and told her I was going to breed just one litter to give to my family and friends she'd probably mow me down with her van, and I would deserve it! j/k That's the importance of limited registrations and spay/neuter contracts. She'd tell me to get my family and friends on a waiting list for her next breeding, or refer me to another reputable breeder who will also sell only on limited registration. Along with that would be making sure that those would be approved homes for a pup. I'm sort of in a different ball park because I am in a co-ownership, and although she knows me very well, and to be a repsonsible person, if I didn't adhere to the contract and decided to go ahead and breed I'd be paying a $5000.00 fine and the pups wouldn't be able to be registered with the AKC because she'd never sign off on them.
Sorry for babbling on here.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[meme_bug]

You need to wait till your dogs are at least a year to a year and a half old to breed them. 12 1/2 weeks is way too early to breed a dog. Get you some good breeding books or go on the internet and research this before you start.

I have bread rat terriers in the past, I never used a whelping box. I got a box that was big enough for them to move around in and have plenty of space and I fixed them a cover in the bottom I show my ***** where the box was and when it was time to have the pups she went to the box.
If you breed them too early in life it could lead to dead puppies or the death of the ***** dog.

Wait till she is older and is not a pup herself:

[artmark]

there are so many unwanted pets in the world I do not understand the need for non professional breeding?
George

[Macawpower58]

Amber

Listen to what you've been told here. Breeding isn't about "You"! It is about improving and keeping sound a breed that your in love with. No one here cares about how you know the work your in for, or how much you've studied up on it. How is your breeding going to help the Miniture Pincher in the future. If it is not to help, do not breed!!

I also am with Newfie. I co-own with my breeder. My GSDs parents and/or Grandparents are world-class (they've won the Siegar Show in Germany). I still will not breed my dogs!! Breeders do not sell/give away thier "pick" puppy. No matter how good you dogs parents are, there is little chance your pup is breed worthy. Getting a dog that is breed worthy takes years of study and knowing who and why your breeding.

If your family must have this kind of dog, then go to a rescue of MinPins. There you can help the breed by giving homes to dogs that need it. You'll also be part of the solution instead of the part of problem!

What your considering doing is unethical, inconsiderate, and plain wrong.
I hope you reconsider.

[ambernd]

Ok guys i understand what all of you are saying but i seriously do not see what is wrong with it when i breed them and they go to family members that i know are good homes and i know that they will be spayed and nuetered.... i am only planning on having one litter and i dont see how it will hurt if they will have forever homes...and if they decide they dont want them then ill take them back...oh and meme bug i am definetly waiting till she is at least one i know that it could seriously hurt her at this age but right now im wanting to get info so i can have knowlege about it before i do it and so i won't end up hurting her....and i dont know if all you guys know it or not but not all people want "show quality" dogs....in fact i don't even know anyone who does show their dogs./..a lot of people just want pets not show quality...they don't really care what their lines are they just want a good dog.....thanks for replying!

[Jennicat]

Right. Most people don't want show quality dogs. Which works well for breeders who show, since most of the dogs they produce are not show quality, but pet quality!

[ambernd]

i dont know if this will work or not but if so here is a pic of kitty

[PatchO'Pits]

Please read the link already posted on the thread I did on breeding.

First off besides the dogs beiing too young you can not tell if they have genetic defects without health testing being done wen they are older. It is not a regular vet check not something a breeder can tell you. Check out the OFA website. Where any of the dogs in the pedigree or the parents OFA tested, if not the breeder can not say even her own dogs don't have defects.

Try educating yourself first before even considering it.

Do you even know the standard for the breed and the bloodlines of the pups and how they would match up. Do you knwo the faultts and good points of each pup and what possibly could be produce? Do you knwo all the genetic ssues such as back problems that run in that breed???

If like you've said you've made up your mind to do this in such an uneducated manner than you are going to just be another BYB sadly. That may seem harsh to you but if you researched you'd understand why.

I am not against responsible breeding but am against BYBs big time.

[susieque_34]

I see good points in everyones arguements here. I am thinking about this from a different point of view. I love my pets and want just that.....pets. I don't care if they are "show quality" as long as they are loving pets that let me spoil them. My husband and I don't make a lot of money so we only have the one dog (and her pups now) because we don't want to get in a position where we have too many dogs to get good vet care. When I took my dog to the vet last week to deliver I had to use my property tax money to pay her vet bill. Now I have to find some overtime work for property taxes in two weeks. I'm too tired from the pups to work overtime and have to be home at feeding time. (remember this amber) It was my fault she got out so I am not complaining a bit, I'm just saying some people don't want high dollar dogs. Before anyone brings up the obvious we have tried the pound a few times and had bad results every time. I just hope you understand Amber that pet care during pregnancy will be hundreds of dollars (thousands if a c-section is required) and you still may end up with dead puppies or momma. It happens all the time and seems more prominent in small breeds.
Sorry I hope no one thought I was whining there.....I just wanted her to see the way it can be.....

[ambernd]

well finaly someone (sort of) on my side... Every since i posted this i havn't got any of my questions answered..... all i have been getting is people telling me not to breed when i know i am so they can just stop telling me that!! (i hope i didn't sound mean there) All i want is someone to walk me through the breeding prosses and everything step by step... i really do apreciate everyone trying to help out the breed but im haveing 1 single litter. i know what can happen if it goes wrong, i already have homes for them, i just want some nice pets, they will be spayed and nuetered.... please just someone help me through the breeding process thats all i ask.... i just need a mentor or something...thank you everyone for replying though!

[Jerica]

I'll try to help you out as much as I can (although I do recommend reading Patch O' Pits posts on breeding as she is a breeder herself). You seem to know what its going to take to breed them and since you are set on breeding I"m not going to try to discourage you. My mom wanted to breed our chihuahua, Kit, but the three times we tried she never got pregnant (she was not socialized well as a pup and was scared of the males I think she was able to keep hidden from the male).

Make sure she is at least 2 years old please! Make sure BEFORE breeding she up to date on ALL shots, you may want to go ahead and have a fecal test done for worms, and maybe even deworm her even if nothing shows up to be on the safe side. You try and breed about the 11th or so day of the heat cycle (I can't remember the exact day). Mostly you can put the male and female together in the same room, or if you want to try and keep the male for a long while before the heat cycle just at your house so they can know each other and when she is in heat he will know when and she will allow him to breed her on the right day. After the breeding feed her normally, gestation is about 63 days when she is I think about 2 weeks before the due date start feeding puppy food (Gradually introduce it before these two weeks). You may want to take her in for an ultrasound before she is due so you know around how many to expect.

You can use a cardboard box with a blanket you don't mind eventually throwing away (or newspapers just for the delivery then the blanket) for a whelping box. Make sure the box is big enough she can easily turn and stretch out in, like full out stretching. Just know she may or may not use this box, try having her sleep in it some nights if you can. If you can be there for when she delivers (you really need to try to be, but sometimes you can't be) just watch her, have the phone and vets number handy, towels in case you need to help dry pups, etc. Most deliveries go smoothly, but I'm sure you know pups may get stuck in the birth canal, or so many other things may go wrong. Save up money so you can make sure to have it if anything goes wrong and just for the general care of her and the pups.

After the delivery and if everything is fine you don't have to do a whole lot, continue feeding puppy food, make sure pups are getting fed, etc. There is also the chance she may not feed pups as it will be her first litter and she may not know what to do. In that case you will have to hand feed pups. If things go well and she does take care of them, they will be weaned around 8 weeks old, try to keep them for a few weeks after this to let them get every bit of puppy knowledge they can from momma and the littermates. Once the pups are weaned momma can go back on her own dog food. I'll help with any questions if I can. I think I got this all right, anyone correct me if I'm wrong about anything. This is based off research I've done, and from having puppies when my mom never fixed a dog we used to have when I was little (grr still mad she let her breed). So I hope I've helped you out, since you are going to do this I'm glad you are doing your research and willing to put out any money you need to. Good luck.

[susieque_34]

But be prepared for earlier pups. My dog was only 56 days when she delivered. Anything that could go wrong did with my dog. The first pup got stuck and I had to pull it. It was breach and she broke the bag as soon as she saw feet so the pup was in bad shape. He made it now and is strong.My husband and I worked 20 minutes blowing in its mouth and rubbing it. She quit then and didn't have another pup for 6 hours and that was on the way to the vets office. Be prepared that it is a bloody mess. You do have to be prepared to pull with gentle pressure if she can't push it out on her own. For the first few days I bottle fed each pup which took over an hour and then they had to be fed every two hours. Mom will now feed the pups, but she will not clean them or pay attention to them. If she is feeding them and one gets close to her head she will growl. My husband built a whelping box with side big enough that mom can get in, but pups won't be able to get out of for quite a while. he also mounted a heat lamp over it on a adjustable switch so I can keep them as warm as they need. Puppies can not regulate their own body heat at all for a few weeks and a cold puppy dies very easily. You do have at least a year to read up on the subject so do your homework! There is plenty of stuff on the internet to read.

[Jennicat]

Out of curiosity... you say that you just want pets. How are you going to handle it if one of your dogs throws puppies with severe genetic problems? If a dog has to suffer with a debilitating problem because you just wanted pet quality dogs and didn't show and do genetic testing, etc?

[BeagleButt]

My only problem with your stance, BeagleButt, is that we are currently euthanizing 9 dogs a minute in the United States. Most of t hem are "mutts" and great family dogs There's no shortage of them.

Not so much around here I must say. Most of our homeless dogs have behavior problems, and the ones that don't are usually gone from the pound within the week. Might just be where I live, but that's how it is I've been following it for several months now.

I will fully admit that the behavior problems are usually the fault of the previous owner, but to be honest, under this rubric most people can't own dogs. Very rarely it seems that a human is the actual alpha in the house, especially if you start looking at dog behavior very strictly.


Most people let their dogs "walk" them (or lead them) when they are out.
Most small dogs are allowed to jump up.
Nearly *all* dogs are made a fuss of when the come running up all anxious after you've been gone.


None of these things should be done by/to a dog that isn't supposed to be the alpha (and of course there are others).

Given that, there are going to be a lot of dogs that are homeless, through the fault of the owner, and not their breed.

I guess my argument would be, that there aren't necessarily too many dogs, but too many people being allowed to get dogs who shouldn't.

So if you are doing all of the proper things for the potential health of the dog (getting health certs for hips etc..) and screening potential owners properly (like any good purebreeder, having a spay/neuter contract unless they are planning to become a breeder and only then after you have thoroughly checked them out and made the necessary contracts for under what conditions the dog may be bred, co-ownership even.), and taking the dog back regardless of circumstance if need be, The likelyhood of them having to leave their owner would be greatly reduced, and they would *always* have a place to go FOREVER if something *did* happen.

In that scenario, all dogs would have a home regardless of breed, and they wouldn't end up with BYB, even if you make a mistake and the "breeder" turns out to be a BYB, you know exactly who it is and have provision for getting your dog back. That type of scenario I support.

If you told me the only differences between two proper breeders were one had purebred Siberian Huskies, and one was making a Husky/Lab cross. I wouldn't worry about the Husky/Lab cross breeder b/c I know they will take care of their dogs and puppies as they work towards a more perfect Lusky (lab/husky). I would instead focus on BYB of purebred huskies and husky mixes who *won't* be taking care of them, selling them to people who shouldn't own dogs etc... Those are the people I would try to stop b/c those are the people actually causing harm to dogs.

[ambernd]

thank you jerica....i dont have much time to type right now but i just wanted to say thanks....

[PatchO'Pits]

well finaly someone (sort of) on my side... Every since i posted this i havn't got any of my questions answered..... all i have been getting is people telling me not to breed when i know i am so they can just stop telling me that!! (i hope i didn't sound mean there) All i want is someone to walk me through the breeding prosses and everything step by step... i really do apreciate everyone trying to help out the breed but im haveing 1 single litter. i know what can happen if it goes wrong, i already have homes for them, i just want some nice pets, they will be spayed and nuetered.... please just someone help me through the breeding process thats all i ask.... i just need a mentor or something...thank you everyone for replying though!

I am not trying to be rude but you did not ask any specific questions so what is it now you finally put up an actual question and want a whole over view of breeding?????????????? I have several threads up on breeding . I already told you you should read them.
You have no clue what you are doing and want everyone here to help you become a BYB. I find that sad.

You obviously don't know all that can go wrong or you wouldn't be asking questions on a forum about it.

There are not many people on this forum who are breeders. I am one of them. I gladly help people who are in a jam or are doing things the right way. To breed responsibly you don't just get a quick overview of things. You are kidding ... right????

Quite honestly why isn't the person you bought the dogs from mentoring you??? Or are they a BYB?

BeagleButtnot every dog in a shelter has a behavior issue. Also just because maybe in your specific area there are not tions of shelter dogs it doesn't mean that their aren't not far from you. Are you in the US. If you are there certainly are sheter and homeless dogs everywhere.

So if you are doing all of the proper things for the potential health of the dog (getting health certs for hips etc..) and screening potential owners properly (like any good purebreeder, having a spay/neuter contract unless they are planning to become a breeder and only then after you have thoroughly checked them out and made the necessary contracts for under what conditions the dog may be bred, co-ownership even.), and taking the dog back regardless of circumstance if need be, The likelyhood of them having to leave their owner would be greatly reduced, and they would *always* have a place to go FOREVER if something *did* happen.

In that scenario, all dogs would have a home regardless of breed, and they wouldn't end up with BYB, even if you make a mistake and the "breeder" turns out to be a BYB, you know exactly who it is and have provision for getting your dog back. That type of scenario I support. .All responsible breeders do this plus a whoile heck of a lot more, if they are not doing it then they are BYBs

If you told me the only differences between two proper breeders were one had purebred Siberian Huskies, and one was making a Husky/Lab cross. I wouldn't worry about the Husky/Lab cross breeder b/c I know they will take care of their dogs and puppies as they work towards a more perfect Lusky (lab/husky). I would instead focus on BYB of purebred huskies and husky mixes who *won't* be taking care of them, selling them to people who shouldn't own dogs etc... Those are the people I would try to stop b/c those are the people actually causing harm to dogs.There would never be two equal breeders one making mutts and one making purebred... designer breeds that are not papered. First off desinger dog breeders that I have come across are producing mutts and have no interaction with any reputible organization like UKC or AKC in the works to make a new breed that can be registered nor have they even looked into it; perhaps someone is doing this, but I have yet to see it or read about it. Doesn't mean they aren't just saying my experiences. There are plenty of dogs that meet people's needs so why try to make something new... just because you can? Also I have yet to see designer dog breeders that health test their dogs, do TT CGC or any other type of tests to prove why their dog should be bred. And also to what standard are their designer dogs held since no reputible org accepts them as breeding stock??? Just some things to think about. I'm sure some of those people may be very nice and love their dog however that doesn't mean what they are doing is right. There are way too many shelter dogs for every Tom, Jane and Harry to just breed anything they want and say ooo look I made a new breed now. UUUGH

Both purebred and mix bred dogs can come from BYBs but mix bred dogs can not come from a reputible breeder. JMO but my thought and feelings are based on facts

[rstowe]

I'm against breeding but it seems you are dead set to do it.

All I ask is follow the advice of Patch o' Pits. Take your time, do the research and save lots of money. It sounds like you want to rush into it and want people here to give you all the answers. Unfortunately, there are only a couple of breeders on this site - most of us rescue our dogs and don't believe in breeding so you won't get much help from us so please listen to Patch; she knows what she is talking about.

[NewfieGrl]

There are alot of different points here, and I've said SO much that I will try to keep this short.
Yes, alot of dogs in shelters have behavioral problems. THANKYOU all you BYB's out there. Good, responsible breeders work very hard to breed for absolutely every good trait, including behavior. And if one of their buyers has an issue THEY take that dog back!
There is alot of talk about breeders do this and breeders do that, but GOOD breeders don't fit into the categories most are talking about.
Breeding to give your pets to family and friends. Either your breeder does not know you are doing this, because you are on a forum asking how to do things rather than going to your GOOD breeder, or your breeder just doesn't give a hoot about the future of her offspring. That puts your breeder right into the BYB category. Good, responsible breeders NEVER sell their pups, that aren't show quality and WON'T be shown, without a spay/neuter contract on limited registration.
And why aren't you getting all this information from YOUR breeder? Your breeder should be the expert on your breed of dog. He/she will have so much more knowledge about each and every problem that is prevelant for your particular breed. Every single breed is different and faces it's own set of problems, genetic, whelping, and SO much more.
Breeding for your family and friends? How are they going to feel if there is a genetic problem that your dogs passed along to the pups? Your dog may NEVER exhibit any of these problems, but if there is a genetic problem somewhere in the lines then the pups may be afflicted with it. Do you care about that? Have you thought about the heartache that could be caused from this? How will you feel if you lose your female during whelping? It happens to the best of them. Is it really worth it to you? Why can't your family and friends purchase their dogs from a good, respectable, responsible breeder?
You talk about breeding your female at one year of age. That is to young to go through the testing. OFA's cannot be submitted until the age of 2 years.
If you just don't give a hoot about things your dogs can pass on, then, by all mean, breed your dog at one year of age and don't do the testing necessary.
It pretty much sounds like you're going to do what you want to do anyway.
Honestly, I'm not trying to be mean. But there is so much more to this scenariio than what you stated in your first post, putting them together and letting them go at it.
The reason you are getting the type of feedback that you are getting is because most of the people on this forum are extremely responsible pet lovers who care more about the future of breeds, and put that ahead of our own wants.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[marg]

Ok guys i understand what all of you are saying but i seriously do not see what is wrong with it when i breed them and they go to family members that i know are good homes and i know that they will be spayed and nuetered.... i am only planning on having one litter and i dont see how it will hurt if they will have forever homes...and if they decide they dont want them then ill take them back...oh and meme bug i am definetly waiting till she is at least one i know that it could seriously hurt her at this age but right now im wanting to get info so i can have knowlege about it before i do it and so i won't end up hurting her....and i dont know if all you guys know it or not but not all people want "show quality" dogs....in fact i don't even know anyone who does show their dogs./..a lot of people just want pets not show quality...they don't really care what their lines are they just want a good dog.....thanks for replying!

Well, you just answered my question. If you are wanting to give your dogs away to family members then SEND YOUR FAMILY TO THE SHELTER!!! There are thousands of wonderful dogs all over this country that are being killed everyday because no one wanted them(no fault of their own.) You are right that not everyone wants a show quality dog. That is the very reason to help the dogs that are already here. More dogs in the world is the last thing we need. I got my dog at the shelter and she is the most wonderful thing ever. You need to stop and think even more about it until you come to the decision of neutering your dogs. You are breeding for the WRONG reason.

[SPCAEmployee]

Here is what I have to say.....


If you are on here asking people about how to breed your dog you should NOT be breeding. If you don't know what a whelping box is then you should not be breeding. If you don't know if you should "just put them in a room and let them go at it" you should not be breeding. You seriously need to do more research A LOT MORE.

Have you researched their pedigrees to make sure they aren't related? Chances are probably not. What if they are mom and uncle? you could be breeding birth defects into the lines. Nobody wants puppies with birth defects.

I read a statistic the other day that said.... 1 in 6 puppies born (purebred that is. ) actually go into a home and stay in a home for the rest of their lives. The rest of the five in the litter end up at a shelter at some point in their life. This statistic for mixed breeds is like 3 in 6.

I am not against breeding at all. I will never breed. I have an excellent quality, confirmation lines, golden retriever, and a lab with excellent hunting lines, and they are spayed and neutered. I also have a Chihuahua that is on the neuter train. He has an appointment to get snipped next month.

Please do the shelters and the puppies you are hoping to produce, a favor and get your pets fixed. You don't know the first thing about breeding and you should not be breeding. What happens if a sheltie gets into the backyard and breeds with your female. Now you have mixed breed dogs that are probably going to all end up in the shelter.

Leave breeding to the professionals who do it for the improvement of the breed. These breeders can trace back their pedigrees up to 6 generations or more. LEAVE IT TO THEM. DO NOT BREED!!!!

[susieque_34]

Wow spca employee.....Brutus is absolutely beautiful. I am in love with his face and I can tell he really really wants to be someones pet. I hope you find a great home for him.
I have gotten a few dogs and one cat from a local pound and it has always been a miserable failure. The pound I went to doesn't ask anything but your name, phone number and what vet you want to use. They do pay for the first vet visit and you pay only 25.00 for a dog and less for a cat. The cat we got was loving and sweet but by the second day we had her and she really started letting us love on her I started feeling something odd around her stomach so I took her on to the vet and she had tumors. The vet was very nice about it and took her in the back and didn't charge me anything. She wasn't a young cat and I figure he put her to sleep. I didn't ask because I had two heartbroken children with me.

[Jerica]

I wanted to point out that just because I gave all that info about breeding and all doesn't mean I encourage this. I am against breeding unless they are the perfect standards of their breed, pedigreed generations back, health tested all of that, and I agree that the good responsible breeders who are already started should be the ones doing the breeding. I do also wonder why your family and friends can't go to an already established breeder (why not the one you got your dog from?) or better yet the shelter. I actually find shelter dogs in the long run end up being better dogs. I also wonder why you can't ask your breeder the questions?

I got Willow from the shelter, she was already spayed (before coming into the shelter) she was said to be about 5 yrs or older (age I was looking for, since Shiloh doesn't like puppies) she was said to be a sheltie mix, but found out through asking people that she actually looks more like a mini aussie. She may be a purebred mini aussie (though I don't care, I love all purebreds and mutts alike). She is a well behaved dog, incredably intelligent and pretty easy to teach. She is a very sweet dog too. Shiloh came from some people who were giving him away because they said they couldn't use him to hunt (he still sorta has a limp from being hit by a car as a pup) He is a purebred beagle, don't have his pedigree, but know his birth date and thats all I care about since he was neutered when I got him and I never wanted to breed anyway, he was 4 then now 12 going to be 13 this June. He is a big lover and very smart.

My point is there are already great dogs out there like others have said, Willow had been in the shelter about a month and so she was very lucky the staff was very fond of her or she would have been euthanized. She seemed to be the only dog in the shelters near me that could work with Shiloh (he doesn't like bigger dogs, males, or pups because he's getting old now). If she had been euthanized and I never got her I don't know what would have happened, she's perfect for me and Shiloh :)

Again point is instead of risking your dogs life by having puppies and risking having genetic and other problems, why not tell your friends and family to adopt a dog or puppy from the shelter who already has been born. Just so you know esepcially smaller dogs seems to have more problems giving birth and raising pups than larger dogs (don't know why) but maybe they have more problems raising pups because they are always like babies themselves. My mom always wanted to breed Kit our chihuahua, but I actually believe she would have rejected her pups, she doesn't like other dogs and my mom always babyed her. I'm glad Kit never got pregnant and my mom gave up on the idea of breeding her, now she is 9 and never will be bred, I am going to try to convince my sister (who now owns her) to get her spayed, I'm even willing to pay for it if I have to (as my sister has a baby on the way).

So anyway, I just gave that breeding info since you are determined to breed I hope it helps, cause even though I agree that you shouldn't breed (no offense) I'd rather you do it with some knowledge than none or very little.

[ambernd]

everyone is saying that i should leave it to professionals but the thing is i want to be a proffessional breeder one day....ya have to start somewhere... and i myself have gotten well over a half a dozen dogs at the shelter and believe it or not i took them all back...one of them bit my sister another one tore my house to pieces....and verything else you can think of those dogs have done..... and shelter dogs, personly, havn't worked out for me...i just went to the shelter the other day and over half the dogs over there had "beware of dog" signs on the cages....i really really do understand why alot of yoiu are ticked off at me but i just want alot of info so i can be good at breeding and learn how to check their lines and all that.....but i just want some help so i dont hurt the pups or my dog

[NewfieGrl]

The way to be good at breeding isn't experimenting on your dogs. You will get a horrible reputation as a breeder if you do it this way. Go to shows and meet good breeders. Those are the breeders that put spay/neuter in their contract with limited AKC registrations, unless they are placing show quality dogs. Unfortunately you may have gotten off to a bad start with a not so good breeder if your breeder didn't do this. Maybe you didn't know then, but after reading everything you have read you should know now.
Go to breeders kennels, get involved in your breed clubs, have good breeders teach you why they choose VERY carefully in matching two dogs. Learn the OFA website and how to research pedigrees.
A good breeder takes the time needed to learn EVERYTHING there is to know about breeding before they stick two dogs together.

Let me share two stories with you that have affected my family in the past few years that were created by "breeders". I use that word VERY lightly!
My ex husband took a Newfie from a family that was going to dump her in a shelter about back in 2000. She was about a year old. She was a very very sweet dog. She looked more like a Newf-lab mix than a purebred Newfie, although she was AKC registered Newfoundland. 1st example of bad breeding, not breeding for structure or type! About a month after took her he got her hips exrayed because she seemed wobby. NO HIP SOCKETS! Oh, did I mention the entropian eye? 2nd example of bad breeding. No health clearances down the lines. In 2005 she was diagnosed with a fatal tumor in her stomach. He spent almost 2000.00 on surgery to remove the basketball size tumor. She lived 6 weeks before the tumor returned. Now that is one that the jury is still out on. Chances are she could have carried a gene for this type of cancer. I'm sure the great breeder that started the horrible cylce of lines she came from would never let anyone know. She was euthinized in March of 2005. The gut wrenching sobs that I heard from my 12 year old daughter while she was in the shower absolutely killed me. If you had to hear them you might understand.
Flash forward to early fall 2005. My exhusband worked with someone who knew he had lost his dog and knew the torment it caused him and my daughter. He and his wife are breeders of Bull Mastiff's. They decided to give my exhusband one of the puppies. The pup seemed ok at first. Then all of a sudden started throwing up the food right after he ate. He quickly started losing weight. A trip to the vet confirmed megaesophagus. All research I did indicates that this is something passed on through genes. My ex husband was distraught. I was the one on the phone with the breeder discussing this problem. She felt horrible but insisted it was not something she passed on! OKKKK! Things like this do happen to the best of breeders, but the ones that stick their heads in the sand, deny it had anything to do with their lines, and repeat the breeding should have their kennel licenses stripped! But that doesn't happen! I helped all I could with the feedings because they had to be done with the pup completely upright so the food would slide down, and then the pup had to be left in an upright position for approximately 1/2 hour. I have never seen a human being devote so much of their time and love to trying to save a puppy as my ex did. He cried on a daily basis and the decision to euthinize was so difficult for him. And yes, you guessed it, another round of gut and heartwrenching crying from my daughter.
These are personal reasons that I have absolutely NO respect for breeders out there who are experimenting. Experimenting is not the way to learn. Experimenting can cause horrible consequences for all involved. You are going to match two dogs that you probably have no proof of health clearances on, and you have no experience with matching lines correctly. Learning takes years and years before you actually breed yourself. One person doing it the wrong way can ruin a whole set of lines and can cause horrible pain to those involved. Good breeders have things happen, and they do all they can to eliminate the problems in their lines. They would NEVER consider throwing two dogs together because they are cute. They know several generations of the lines, they can track the health clearances through the OFA database, and on and on.
If you want to breed and have a following who respects you, instead of thinks of you as a back yard breeder, you need to "do the time". Whereever you go you will get the same kind of feedback that you are getting on this forum. People who know breeding and have a love for a particular breed despise people who are ruining breeds.
Again, find a GOOD breeder to mentor. Learn who the REAL good breeders are, because they are truly rare.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[Bex0792]

Newfiegrl: I'm so sorry that happend to you I can totally relate to hearing a childs gut wrenching sobs. :( I had that happen to me as well. We got a Great Pyrenees puppy from man that said he was a "professional" breeder. Over the course of two weeks we noticed the puppy trying to poop but nothing came out. We took him to the vet because I thought he was constipated. The vet came back and told us he had a very rare birth defect. He said that he had only seen this once before. the puppy was born without an anus. the Vet said that his body would begin shutting down and recommended that we euthinanize him.

[ambernd]

well everyone i just e-mailed my breeder but she hasn't replyed yet.... im hoping that she will help me out.... since kitty and gatico are only puppies then that means i have about 2 years to learn about breeding... so hopefully my breeder will help me out.....

[marg]

everyone is saying that i should leave it to professionals but the thing is i want to be a proffessional breeder one day....ya have to start somewhere... and i myself have gotten well over a half a dozen dogs at the shelter and believe it or not i took them all back...one of them bit my sister another one tore my house to pieces....and verything else you can think of those dogs have done..... and shelter dogs, personly, havn't worked out for me...i just went to the shelter the other day and over half the dogs over there had "beware of dog" signs on the cages....i really really do understand why alot of yoiu are ticked off at me but i just want alot of info so i can be good at breeding and learn how to check their lines and all that.....but i just want some help so i dont hurt the pups or my dog

OMG!! Do you really think that if a dog is purebred that it won't bite someone or it won't tear up furniture. That is NOT the dog's fault!!! That really makes me mad. How many dogs have you just thrown away because you couldn't handle them? Did you say a half dozen or more. That is SO SAD. Puppies will be puppies and dogs will be dogs. It is up to us to keep them out of trouble. You are in for a BIG surprise if you think just because a dog is not purebred it is trouble and if it is then it is perfect. I have seen many more shelter dogs w/ MUCH better temperment than a purebred.

[ambernd]

OMG!! Do you really think that if a dog is purebred that it won't bite someone or it won't tear up furniture. That is NOT the dog's fault!!! That really makes me mad. How many dogs have you just thrown away because you couldn't handle them? Did you say a half dozen or more. That is SO SAD. Puppies will be puppies and dogs will be dogs. It is up to us to keep them out of trouble. You are in for a BIG surprise if you think just because a dog is not purebred it is trouble and if it is then it is perfect. I have seen many more shelter dogs w/ MUCH better temperment than a purebred.
MARG.......i wasn't saying that purebred dogs aren't going to have temperment issues.... i know that all dogs are unpredictible purebred or not... when i go to shelters to buy dogs i don't care if their purebred or not... iwasn't trying to say that mixed dogs from shelters are horrible dogs i was just saying that a lot of the dogs from shelters havnt worked out for me... im not saying that all of them are bad but i havnt had the best of luck with em'.....

[marg]

MARG.......i wasn't saying that purebred dogs aren't going to have temperment issues.... i know that all dogs are unpredictible purebred or not... when i go to shelters to buy dogs i don't care if their purebred or not... iwasn't trying to say that mixed dogs from shelters are horrible dogs i was just saying that a lot of the dogs from shelters havnt worked out for me... im not saying that all of them are bad but i havnt had the best of luck with em'.....
Well, I guess I misunderstood. I just think that it is sad that people get these dogs and then just get rid of them. I'm trying to understand what you are saying, but I am having a hard time. I think there are VERY few "breeders" out there that could actually call themselves breeders. ANYONE can breed dogs. Heck, I could even do that, but when I go out to the animal shelter I can rarely come out of there without crying and wanting to take home every one of those animals. If I could, I would. Shelter dogs, especially ones that have had a hard life, are going to take a lot of time and patience and someone that will give them every chance possible. I just don't see how anyone would want to add to that sad population. Did you read what spca had to say about the odds of a dog ending up in a shelter? Doesn't that bother you? Sure, I would LOVE to see puppies from my dog. But, I could NEVER do it. She is the MOST perfect dog in the world, but I don't know what the future would hold for her puppies so she has been spayed since she was 10 wks. old. Please reconsider.

[marg]

Oh, by the way. Kitty is ADORABLE!!!!:)

[ambernd]

here is a pic i liked alot of kitty!!!

[Jerica]

Kitty is very cute, I forgot to say that ;) If you do all your work talking to breeders, making sure your dog and the stud are both exactly what the breed should be, etc. then that is very good. I wanted to say something about the shelter dogs, did you try to fix the behavior problems? Sometimes they do require more work because they have come from a bad home, but any dog is going to require work. Almost any dog who is bored, still a puppy, has seperation anxiety, etc wil tear apart a house. Many dogs may bite if they just don't know better especially pups, some just need to be trained, some have been abused and need to be taught they can trust people. All dogs require work and you'll definatly see how hard it can be to not have your house torn apart and messed all over when you have a mother and all her pups running around. If you honestly do all the research you can (which I believe should not only be about breeding and your dog breed, but also training and behavior) and you check and recheck their lines and health test them before breeding when they are around 2 years or older and everything turns out healthy then you can be on your way to being a responsible breeder. I also hope you plan on keeping any pups you don't find homes for and take back any pups that owners can't keep, as a responsible breeder would. It seems like you are trying and you do have a couple years to do more research and everything. Keep us up to date on if you end up breeding and if your breeder is going to help you or not. I'd be concerned if your breeder doesn't want to help.

[PatchO'Pits]

well everyone i just e-mailed my breeder but she hasn't replyed yet.... im hoping that she will help me out.... since kitty and gatico are only puppies then that means i have about 2 years to learn about breeding... so hopefully my breeder will help me out..... See now if you are willing to wait and learn and do things properly than I will gladly help and answer questions. I have a feeling though that your breeder may be a BYB if the pups were not sold to you under a spay neuter contract since you have no plans of showing. So you may not get much help from her

[PatchO'Pits]

Here is a great link to some Major issues in health wth your breed and the tests that can be done to rule them out. Did your breeder do any health testing... if not she is not going to be your best choice for a mentor. Maybe you should try contacting some breeders that health test to get better info

[PatchO'Pits]

Luxating patellas, cervical disc problems, leg perthes, epilepsy, thyroid issues, possible heart defects as well as eye problems seem to be the things that pop up most commonly in your breed when I did a little search. This is all stuff you should google and look into

[ambernd]

thanks patch....i called my breeder and she said that she did no health testing because she didn't think I was wanting to breed.... She said that she didn't keep it for breeding because she didn't think it was a "perfect dog" to breed but still not that bad....But she said my dog is a breeding quality dog but not the best as in it would have good pups but not show quality.... I asked her about its past health in its lines and she said that she has had no dogs with health problems and she's been breeding for 11 years now....

[PatchO'Pits]

thanks patch....i called my breeder and she said that she did no health testing because she didn't think I was wanting to breed.... She said that she didn't keep it for breeding because she didn't think it was a "perfect dog" to breed but still not that bad....But she said my dog is a breeding quality dog but not the best as in it would have good pups but not show quality.... I asked her about its past health in its lines and she said that she has had no dogs with health problems and she's been breeding for 11 years now.... She is not being truthful with you or is just ignorant to what health tests are ... I say this because she said she didn't health test the pups because she didn't know you were interested in breeding .
Most health tests can't even be done until the dogs are at least 2. Also HER breeing pair that she used to produce your pup should have been health tested and you should have been shown proof. Saying there is no problem with the line and not doing any testing just means there may or may noit be problems and she wouldn't know the difference because the dogs were not checked. Unless of course she has some sort of proof and documentation from someplace like OFA that they were done.

Also she is incorrect in saying your pup can or can't produce show quality dogs. that would depend on who the dog was bred too and how your pup turns out and what genes are dominant behiond her. I understand you don't care about that. I'm just trying to make a point and show you the type of breeder you are dealing with to begin with.

She may have been doing it for 11 years, but I am not impressed with her answers to you at all. Sounds like she is just trying to cover her own butt and make you happy and tell you what you want to hear. I'm pretty blunt with stuff like this. being honest is the best way to be ... even if sometimes it isn't what people want to hear

If she was a good breeder she would not say it was OK to breed a dog that wasn't breed stock quality.

I know how much you want to breed. What you may be better off doing though is starting out with her as a pet, getting her spayed and going to a reputible breeder to get a pup that better quality . That is nothing against your pup. I'm sure she is a wonderful pet. It just isn't the right way to start a breeding .

[SPCAEmployee]

One thing no one has mentioned is that.... you plan on waiting to health test them. Say they don't pass their health test.... are you going to get them spayed and neutered?

What is your reason for breeding? Cause puppies are cute? She would be a good mom? They are purebred so you HAVE to breed them?

Are you prepared for all the medical expenses? including a possible $1200 C-section if mom can't pass the pups. Are you prepared to deal with still born puppies? Are you prepared to pay for x-rays when mom is done having pups to make sure she doesn't have a pup stuck in the birth canal (she can die if that pup never comes out.) Are you prepared to deal with the fact that while your dog is in heat every male dog ina 5 mile radius will be at your house and may impregnant your dog without you realizing it?

I work at a vets office and this is the same thing I run through with people. Nobody can ever give me a solid answer about why they are breeding. Cute is always the biggest answer. If they are so cute... buy another one from a REPUTABLE breeder.

Let me tell you a story from the hospital I work at.

We were doing a routine spay on a 6 month old lab. She is purebred and is a very good looking dog. I was able to convince mom to spay her since she had no intentions of breeding her. During surgery the doctor removed her ovaries and her uterus. Attatched to one of the ovaries was a cyst bigger than the size of a golfball. Good thing we caught it in time because eventually that cyst would have ruptured and killed the dog. That was at 6 months old... was this genetic????

Talk to people who are good breeders before you do this.... Patch O Pits has beautiful dogs and from what I know seems to be a very responsible breeder.

Leerburg German Shepherds are probably the best GSDs you can find. Look him up. look at his forum and see what they say about breeding. He breeds for a purpose. He will only breed his dogs with dogs that he has researched and made sure they were health cleared. He is not an "open" breeder meaning he doesn't just let any dog breed with his.

Take a look at these sites and make sure this is really what you want to do.

[ambernd]

One thing no one has mentioned is that.... you plan on waiting to health test them. Say they don't pass their health test.... are you going to get them spayed and neutered?

What is your reason for breeding? Cause puppies are cute? She would be a good mom? They are purebred so you HAVE to breed them?

Are you prepared for all the medical expenses? including a possible $1200 C-section if mom can't pass the pups. Are you prepared to deal with still born puppies? Are you prepared to pay for x-rays when mom is done having pups to make sure she doesn't have a pup stuck in the birth canal (she can die if that pup never comes out.) Are you prepared to deal with the fact that while your dog is in heat every male dog ina 5 mile radius will be at your house and may impregnant your dog without you realizing it?
If they don't pass the health tests i'm not going to breed...I don't want to hurt the pups... If they are perfectly healthy then yes i will breed... and as of right now i have about $3000 dollars saved up and i still have like 2 years to save more.... and my reason for breeding is, "puppies are cute, she would be a good mom", i have the money, i want the experience, my family wants them, I want them, and i just want to have puppies...

[Jennicat]

If you just want the experience of breeding, why not foster a pregnant stray, rather than risking the health and well being of your own dogs?

[rstowe]

Good idea Jenni. Fostering a pregnant stray will give you the experience needed.

[SPCAEmployee]

Those are the reasons that you should not breed. Puppies are cute to everyone until they start tearing apart people's houses, then they end up at the shelter, or locked in a crate for 16 hours a day. is that fair???

I agree.... fostering a pregnant dog would be good for you.

I guess it doesn't matter what anyone says. You are going to do whatever you want. Even if your dogs don't pass their health test. Why do any of us waste our time trying to stop you?

[NewfieGrl]

I have to agree with everyone above. And the biggest problem lies with the breeder of your pups. She has not done health testing because she has not had problems in years. She should be doing health testing regardless of whether she has had problems or not. She may not know if a buyer has had a problem with a dog from one of her previous litters. Testing should be done on every single breeding dog no matter what. And it clearly bothers me that she did not sell her pups with a spay/nueter contract.
Unfortunately your breeder falls into the irresponsible Back Yard Breeder category. Not your fault if you didn't know. You seem to be a little more open to suggestions and learning, which is good.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[Jerica]

SPCAEmployee, I just wanted to add she DID say she is going to be responsible and NOT breed her dog if she ends up not passing health tests.

However I don't like the sound of your breeder, it seems like the breeder is telling you what you want to hear. I agree it may be a good idea to try fostering a pregnant dog before you get into breeding so you know how to handle things that could go wrong while also giving a temporary home to the mother and pups. It would give you a lot of experience. And if your breeder can't prove that her dogs are health tested (and the other generations) then I wouldn't breed your dog, even if her health tests go fine. You should go back to your breeder and ask to see the paper work for the health tests and records of the other dogs in the pedigree. She should be up front and show these to you. I also don't know why a good breeder would tell you your pup is ok to breed even though she isn't show quality which its pretty hard to tell in young pup if they are going to grow into show quality. Some of the pups that look like they aren't good quality as pups grow into the best, remember the story of the ugly ducklng? (I'm not in any way saying your Kitty is ugly, she's absolutly adorable!) I think since you have 2 years at least to figure things out then you can determine if your breeder is not a BYB and if she turns out to be don't breed no matter how well your dog seems to turn out. If she turns out to be reputable with records of health tests for her dogs and all that and you get all the health tests done on Kitty and the stud and have all that money saved up and your dog and the stud are both perfect examples of the breed and you still want to take the risks, then you already doing better than a lot of breeders. However I do recommend before breeding you talk to other breeders of Min Pins and see if you can show Kitty and the stud because this will more determine that these dogs are what the breed should be. Just be sure to keep us updated and of course post lots of pics as Kitty grows (and of the stud if you can too, what was the name of the boy your were going to use?). I think you have figured out by now that even for breeding only one litter of pups its going to take tons and tons of work, tons and tons of research, not just internet research but genetic and more about the health history of your dog's relatives and making sure someone who knows min pins checks out your dog and the stud.

[ambernd]

SPCAEmployee, I just wanted to add she DID say she is going to be responsible and NOT breed her dog if she ends up not passing health tests.
I never knew that you could take in pregnant stray dogs... so do you go through the pregnancy and birth and the raising of the pups if you where to do this???/

[PatchO'Pits]

Call local shelters and tell them what you are interested in doing or contact specific breed rescues

[ambernd]

well would the shelter cover the expences of the birth and stuff???...like if she where to have a c-section would they cover it???

[PatchO'Pits]

well would the shelter cover the expences of the birth and stuff???...like if she where to have a c-section would they cover it??? It deopends on who you deal with. You'd have to check all that info out with the ecsaue or shelter. Often their vets would be on call for the dog and donations hopefully would pay for such emergencies

[ambernd]

question.....how old does a male dog (min pin) have to be before he's bred???

[NewfieGrl]

The proper health tests cannot be done and submitted(for example to the OFA) on males or females until they are two years of age.
Michele
owned by 2 Newfies, a cocker spaniel and 3 cats.

[ambernd]

this is kitty...SHE'S OVER 5 MONTHS NOW!!!!

[ambernd]

this is kitty again...by the way i e-mailed about 3 min pin shelters around my area and none of them e-mailed back...i gave them my phone # also