per request our story

[artmark]

Our elderly pet recently had an accident and took her to the closest emergency hospital, the San Francisco SPCA. She was treated great and we were sent home to nurse her back to health from a vestibular disorder. A month later when we called in a requested progress report we were instructed to bring her in so the Veterinarian could see how she was doing. During our return visit we expressed some concern about a limp and without a comprehensive explanation of the treatment, we were sent home. 5 days later Fluffy was dead in my wife's arms. We were administers of our beloved pet’s death! I have to note that we were given repackaged product minus all the warnings that would have appeared on the box or bottle and we were handed a reprinted two sided reproduction of the product information sheet. I began to do research and was appalled the drug we were given comes from the Vioxx family, an NSAID non steroidal anti inflammatory. There are 1000's of commentaries about these drugs emphasizing that side effects could be deadly, that although this therapy is often used with older dogs for arthritic conditions, older dogs are at more risk, often they have undiagnosed diseases and conditions that quickly escalate into death when using these drugs and there are even cases of instant death. There are countless stories of pet owners who have had the same horrifying experience; often they describe their pet’s last days or hours as very painful. Why did the SPCA send us home with only a verbal advisory of two minor side effects? My mind seemed to automatically compare my human experience at a pharmacy and the doctor and the one at the SPCA. I felt the one thing I could do to channel my grief was to point this out to the SPCA, that if we were given options, to choose between this treatment and a less harmful one, instructed about the severity of side effects and that side effects could be life threatening. Although it was too late for us, this would make a difference for other pet owners.

I was referred to head of their clinic, after a short review of the dog’s death he offered his condolences. Mr. Wagner I have my own dog on one of these medications they work wonders, they are safe and do not believe everything you read on the internet. I have been doing this for 40 years and Mr. Wagner let me remind you we are a non profit and neither I nor the SPCA profit from the sale of these drugs. Mr. Wagner if we disclosed everything, no one would use these drugs and they do help a large majority. I interrupted him, Doctor the purpose of my call was to talk to you about your POLICY. We were not given choices or a comprehensive explanation about the medication, I think if we were, we would have behaved much differently, we would have reacted quicker, we would have made better choices, I believe this will help future clients of the SPCA. What came next should only come out of the mouth of a HIGHER POWER! Mr. Wagner you seem like an intelligent person and most of our clients are not, most of them would not care to have that information and or know what to do with it. We are a very busy clinic we see 24,000 cases a year I just do not think we would have the time for it but thanks for your input I will review it with the staff and that ended our conversation.

There is a difference between a Licensed Veterinarian observing a pet on these medications and a pet owner being told if your dog vomits or has a runny stool to stop the medication, I happen to be a sales representative so I have first hand knowledge, someone is prospering the more these drugs are used and purchased, the more a sales representative will prosper and sales representatives lets just say we have a way of spinning facts.

I had four girls in my home: my wife, my human daughter, our now deceased Fluffy and Maggie. Pets become part of the family, they seem to be with you everywhere, we have had Fluffy for 14 years, her breed can live up to 18 and because of her tenacity we always joked she would out live us! What pet owner regardless of their level of intelligence would not want to be given the truth, options and information in which to make a decision about the health care of a family member?

We did not go to the SPCA out of financial need, my wife was in the hospital, our regular vet 3 towns away, we thought we had a emergency and believed we would get safe care at the SPCA. They high jacked our dog’s medical care and were made to feel guilty about her condition. Whenever we would ask her regular vet about her condition we always received the same response “she’s old let her be old”.

[laura grace]

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. No need to say more.

Laura Grace

[dlaura]

Well if you did not like your vet's responce then it was time for a second opinion and a change of vets. Unfortunately sometimes we need to be more aggressive in our pursuit of decent care and a comment like that would have been unacceptable to me. If it was unacceptable to you then you needed to speak up and let your opinion be know to your vet that you didn't want to just "let her be old" that you wanted to "assist her in being comfortable while being old" or something to that extent. Sometimes we tend to take the words of a professional as being from a higher authority and that can be a mistake -- we need to comment or question if we are uncomfortable with an answer. As we have all learned from another recent thread - it can make a difference. However I do not feel that a family who does their best by taking their pet to a trusted vet and yet loses the pet should be made to feel guilty about the care they got the pet. We are not all vets by trade and we petowners should be able to take our animals to a person who is supposed to be educated in their care and trust in their advice and that they have the best interest in our pets outcome from that visit.

[Evey]

I am very sorry for your loss.

Having said that, I will point out that animals are individuals. As such they will have varying degrees of success with ANY medication, same as with people.

I have to agree, if you are not comfortable with what a vet tells you seek out a second opinion. As a pet owner it is your responsibility to ask enough questions to make sure that you have all of the info that you need.

[artmark]

Dlaura,
in retrosprct the advise we received from her regular vet about letting her be old was great advise. we only went to the spca for a emergency, we received different advise there and were made to feel like bad guardians,so we listened used there treatment and the dog died. the bad vet was the director of the spca clinic,in his attitude towards clients ,I only came to know that after the dog died.
DID YOU READ THE STORY? I have spent 4 weeks speaking to law professionals, veternarian professionals, state boards and have compilled a presentation on the issues of informed consent and duty to warn,they agree that they, have a problem but do not care to fix it. the public educated or not have a disconect between human medical care and companion animal care the expect to be the same booth professionals call themselves doctors.
if any one would like the info I can post or supply what the FDA,AVMA AAHA,NABR and the Michigan law school have to say about the subject.
To point the finger at the guardian/owner may make you feel better
and the guardian/owner worse,but it solves nothing as we speak dogs are dying,as matter of fact according to FDA statistics 2.8 dogs die every day from a adverse reaction to a NSAID.does any one know where those 2.8 dogs that will die tommorow are? I would be happy to contact them and warn them,tell them not to accept the vets word to go on the internet and research be a good owner/guardian if you can just tell me where they are. untill we can contact every owner/guardian, before there dog dies maybe it would be a good idea to work for veternarian care that followed laws that have been in use for over 100 years,that combined with the slower method of contacting every owner/guardian could save a life or 2.8 a day!
George

[dlaura]

George, I actually think we are speaking the same thing here. I do not blame the guardians/companions (human companion) of the dogs here. People take their dogs to the vets just like they take children to the doctor and should be able to trust in their vets knowledge and integrity to be given good treatment for their pets. So I think we are in agreement here. I agree that we should be warned about possible side effects and it seems to me that when I have asked my vet I am told. Years ago I got Amber a lyme disease innoculation - I think there is now controversy over those type of shots - but based on what my vet explained at that time I opted to have it.

Yes I read your story. I think you mis-read my statement and maybe should read it. I said I do not feel that a family who does their best by taking their pet to the vet, but the pet dies anyway, should be blamed or made to feel guilty. In an earlier thread (which was closed) a family tried to share a similar story and were made to feel guilty and the cause of their dog's death. I think it is terrible that this loss happened to this family and even more terrible that upon sharing the story to help prevent future occurences they were made to feel lacking in their care of their pet. We are trying to make this a board that is educational, somewhere to talk & share pictures of our pets, a place to share both happy and sad events in our lives with our pets and in doing that I would also expect compassion for those who have loved and lost a pet. Saying I am sorry for your loss and in the same post saying - but you as the dogs guardian should have done more and are the cause of the dog's death is not showing compassion and concern.

[dlaura]

George,
I see that you have posted links to laws about helping our pets under "Health Chat Dogs" and am wondering if it might not belong in another forum that includes all animals. Such as the animal rights forum. If you agree and would like it moved there please let me know and I will move it there. As I said I think we both are on the same page - just some miscommunication here.

[laura grace]

Your comments are very clearly pointed at me and I'd like to take this opportunity to respond.

Perhaps you feel I should have submitted several posts to Usdi's dad; one offering condolences and the other offering my point of view about owner responsibility.

I truthfully don't think that would have made a difference.

Isn't this board for the sharing of different points of view with the hope that maybe we can teach each other to look at situations a little differently for the good of our pets?

You mentioned that you, yourself, will now handle your pet's healthcare differently as a result of my posts. I am proud of you for that and proud of me for helping you see that you can make a difference in a flawed system, regardless of whether legislation is passed.

I understand that sharing such a touching story as the loss of their pet was difficult, but unless that sharing opens the doors to change what's the point?

If the point is for all responses to be: 'I'm sorry for your loss' 100 times over then this is not the forum for me. On the other hand, if the point is for pet owners to take someone else's experience and use it to make better choices for their own pets, then this forum is providing a valuable service.

You can say 'I'm sorry for your loss' in the same post as you offer ideas for change and have both statements ring true. We are all adults here and this is not a therapy session. Even in therapy good intermingles with bad, as that is usually the way life goes in general.

I am sitting here surrounded by 5 of the most glorious pets in the world, aware every minute of the day that their lives are in my hands and grateful for every moment they are with me. My anxiety about this responsibility is marginally calmed by the knowledge that I am not blindly dependent on someone else's mood, knowledge, point of view or legal responsibility.

I simply wish to share that feeling with other pet owners who see my point of view as an alternative to hoping the veterinarians eventually get their act together.

Thank you for the platform.

Laura Grace

[artmark]

I posted this becuase usdi's dad askd me to.
Laura Grace I do not point fingers do not think my comments are about you.they are more general about the postion some take. idealy it would be wonderful if every pet owner had every piece of knowledge they needed if that were the case pets would not be dying of adverse drug reactions or some of the horrible other methods we all share on forums like these.my intention is to awaken people yes be a good guardian,but that only protects your own pets.if we really care we need to do more to protect the ones that are not in our care.there is not a worse feeling in the world to feel responsible for another living things death,if you have not been there hope you never get there, but till you do, you do not know.so now I am charged with a mission to awaken people not for the dog I still have,not for the pets I may have but for everyones pets.I have never encountered a more self serving aroggant profession as I have with veternarians,and have recently corresponded with many.48 hours after we lost our dog,I knew to never trust them again and that I had to do more,so that others did not have to live this tragedy.be a good guardian for your own pets,and if you can do more to help others,help to change a bad system from the drug companies to the FDA to the veternarian.the reason I single out the veternarians they are in the posistion to effect the most change.
George

[dlaura]

Artmark and Laura Grace,
I don't know if usdisdad shared with you the fact that usidsmom had PMed me requesting that her posts/threads be removed from the forum and that her membership be removed also. This PM was forwarded to Mr. P. and I believe he removed her membership. The threads/posts weren't removed - I guess because it wouldn't achieve the original purpose they were intended.

It greatly saddened me that someone who came here in the hopes of sharing her tragic experience from which she learned something the hard way, and had hoped to save others from learning a hard lesson was made to feel guilty that it was her negligence that caused her dog's death. Yes it was clear that she already felt that way, but to have it reinforced by other petlovers when she was trying to do a good thing just upset me and I felt it was uncalled for. So laura grace I weighed in with my opinion on that just as you have with yours.

So she left and usdisdad signed on to further explain the circumstances because of how distraught his wife was over her treatment here on PL. The grieving period of losing a pet is hard enough without this on top of it. My heart goes out to this family.

You have a great cause that you are trying to crusade but using petlovers who have suffered a loss made even harder by the circumstances as a stepping stone to champion your crusade by is just not ethical in my book. The thread was originally started in the "Mourning & Remembrance" forum which was a big tip that these people were still in mourning. This couple could be a great asset in your crusade/campaign and maybe since Artmark has heard from usdisdad maybe they will become involved. I can only hope so as it might help them in their grief. This is where I was coming from in my replies and I too appreciate the forum on which to state it.

I only hope that maybe usdisdad & mom may return to the forum someday as they would have been great folks to have here. From usdisdad's last post I am led to believe it is very slim chances of that. Lets hope I am wrong.

[PatchO'Pits]

E an owner is not at fault in tradgic deaths like these, even with all the research it is hard for the average person with no medical background to assess risks. Vets are supposed to do that for us and tell us what to look for.

Maybe some don't know or maybe they think the good out weighs the risks I don't know.

I ask so may questions now when I go to the vet, I know their heads probably spin when I leave.
I learned that the hard way when doing things for Sock-M's cancer.

Vets are human but they need to remember how important our pets are and I think some just get numb to things and lax in the way they do things

I honestly feel there are great vets , good vets and those who really should not be practicing at all. You need to be vigilant in picking and even then mistakes are made, adverse reactions can certainly happen. This is seen in human medicine as well

I'm sorry for your loss and for anyone else who has experienced a loss this way. I know it is not easy. You should not blame yourself however for doing what you were told was right for your dog

For all the dogs that have reactions you have to remember there are also many who don't who get relief from drugs that are prescribed

[laura grace]

I feel terrible about Usdi's mom leaving, and feel that I should as well.

Understand this is not my crusade, as you call it. I was simply responding with my own thoughts and feelings in what I felt was an appropriate way to a situation I am all too familiar with from my own experiences.

Anyone who chooses to post on a public forum has to be prepared for feedback from all points of view.

If I did nothing else but wake some pet owners up to taking more responsibility for their pet's care, I did a good thing.

We will NEVER change the way veterinarians do business, but we can save lifes one at a time by empowering pet owners with the tools they need to make better choices.

Usdi's mom could have opted to see things in this light and be a big part of these changes. But until people realize that it takes both the veterinarian and the pet owners to accomplish these goals, we're just spinning our wheels.

Legislation or not, vets can be sloppy, non-caring, too busy, etc. And pet owners dealing with a crisis can be forgetful or misunderstand what is being said to them.

At any rate, I am very sorry this happened, and will probably not be returning here either.

Laura Grace