nusiance barker

[ddddb4]

I have s Sheltie that is almost 2 years old (he was given to us about a year ago). Problem is...he NEVER shuts up. If he's outside he barks at everything and nothing - if he's inside he barks and jumps at the door and windows. Hard to break the habit because when you go to reprimand him - he quits.... Needless to say, the neighbors are not happy. I've been considering a shock collar (other options don't appear to work) - any suggestions?
Thank you - looking forward to a good nights' sleep!

[originalfatc]

O pul-eeeeeeeeeease, not a shock collar! That can terrify a timid dog or drive a barker nuts!

Try a citronella one, the smell distracts them without causing fear or rage!

[Top Dog]

Shock collars work!!!! The spray collars only work on 30% of dogs, I have not found them very successful. Some dogs love the taste or smell and sometimes this will get into their eyes. The shock collar works and usually only takes a few shock and they get the idea. You dog fully understands you do not appreciate him/her barking dont fool youself, also the correction does not come from you with the shock collar, he cannot blame you and you will stop that behaviour 80% of the time using the shock.

[originalfatc]

Every dog is different, I say try the easier stuff first. Why call out the artillery for a gnat?
I've seen a timid dog cower after a shock collar, or start submisive urination, why trade one problem for another?

[Top Dog]

A timid dog will submissive urinate after any correction, spray bottle, throw can, and even the spray collar, so what is they urinate after the shock they will in any case, and when they shock works they will stop the undesirable behaviour therefore submissive urination will also stop.

[originalfatc]

Let's agree to disagree.
I've tried your tecniques and have never been satisfied with the results.
Other kinder methods have worked for me.
you do what works for you.

[Top Dog]

Yeah lets agreed to disagree, and I disagree, you know I have many people that came to me that went to other trainers with these so called kinder methods, and yes I understand we have to try and please the market otherwise people will say that we are cruel dog trainers, but I have found that you have to be cruel to be kind, I would rather use methods that work and possible save the dogs life like when they take off after a cat off leash and another trainer uses the kind method of teaching the dog to come back for a treat, thats find if the dog is first of all food motivated and in a non distracting enviorment but I would bet, no not bet guarantee that most dogs in that position would never come back for a treat because they can receive that anytime but it is not everyday that they get to chase a cat. So I use my harsh, inhumane socalled methods but guess what they work!!!! I get results, my clients are happy, their dogs just avoided being run over by a car and fortunatly the car that was about to run over them just avoided an accident.

[ddddb4]

ok...major dispute here I see. Problem here is - to use the spray bottle, can, etc. - I have to be right near the dog. Dog is too smart- won't bark like crazy if I'm right beside him. By the time I get to him - he quits...so now I'd be disciplining him for being quiet? Have heard a lot of negative feedback about citronella - and I'd go broke buying the refills (heard they only last about 15 sprays). Believe me, I don't like the shock idea...but something needs done before a neighbor gets mad and shoots the dog. (I love the dog - and he drives ME nuts!) Anyone else out there use the shock method?
Thanks for all your input!

[DiegoDog]

Do you have throw chains where you live? They are a lightweight chain that kinda looks like a choke collar, if the dog isn't sound sensitive try tossing it at its rear. Not hard, just enough to surprise it. Worked for my dog and I have seen it work on many others. The dog will associate the surprise hit with barking.

[Squawksx3]

OMG! :eek: ... not gonna even comment on the last post.


Hi ddddb4 and welcome to the board :)

I have seen a shock collar used on a young Lab to stop her from barking.. it was a horrible sight. She barked and the collar shocked her... she literally started screaming and jumping in the air, the more she screamed the more she was shocked ... this continued until the owner finally caught up to her and we struggled to get the collar off, with the dog screaming the whole time. We were lucky to not get bit in the process. The dog crapped and pee'd all over herself and was visibly shaken. The owner threw the collar away and the dog still barked. It was very traumatizing for me to watch and I hope I never see anything like that again. Please be careful if you decide to use this method.

[DiegoDog]

The person was talking about manual trigger shock collars. Where you decide when to shock and how long

[DiegoDog]

You say it like it is all cruel and harsh. I mean you were all shocked at a throw chain. You don't pelt them in the head with a pitching arm. They feel a thump as if you gave them a spanking. Its not cruel at all. My dog has never once cried from one, he just shut up and he knew that it was because he barked. Many dogs are smart enough that they'll bark until you get up to spank them or put them in their place. A throw chain is a one up on their logic. They know 'mom' said No and then something fell out of the sky and scared me. Some people use throw chains and toss them against something loud but if the dog isn't sound sensitive then a light surprise on their tush would get their attention. This method is used by countless dog owners in my area. No one ever was shocked or offended by it when witnessing it. Truce? :)

[Squawksx3]

I apologize for replying so negatively to some of the harsh discipline methods posted here lately. I've been involved in dog rescue for years now and have seen the results of mistreated and abused dogs and my heart just breaks.... not to say that you are mistreating or abusing dogs in any way. I also foster dogs who have much deeper issues than most. I believe two wrongs dont make a right. There are other ways to handle things without inflicting more pain to the animal. People would be surprised what a little patience, love and understanding will accomplish. Alot of people dont want to take the time or be bothered to understand why an animal does the things it does. Believe me, I've been through some hard cases and have never resorted to harsh punishment with any of my fosters. It takes time, people want quick fixes... there isn't any. No, I'm not a professional in the sense I went to school and got a degree on training, but I have dealt with many dogs and through trial and error can figure out what works for each different little soul. Harsh punishment should be the last resort, if at all. Guess I see the other side of life that most dont.

[DiegoDog]

I understand. I bet it is hard for you to see harmed animals. But I would never do something to my dog that I believed wasn't in his best intrest. Its hard to explain methods on the computer without someone misunderstand it or forgetting an element of it. I just try to remember everyone is here to try and help everyone.

[Top Dog]

I know I come accross as harsh but my methods are very humane and although I have use very harsh methods with my clients dogs they do not hold any remorse kicking, throwing down the stairs, bashing against walls I would never use these methods for training, that is manhandling. I have trained alot of dog who were abused in the past using harsh but not abussive methods and have received excellent results . I find alot of people when they get the dog from a shelter and the dog shows any signs of submission assume the dog was abused, believe it or not many were not they are just submissive dogs, and I tell my clients even if the dog was abussed stop looking at the past and look towards the future and so will the dog.

[originalfatc]

Well, I just couldn't stay away from this one lol, it got about as heated as spay/neuter or declawing.

There's actually been some fantastic points here.

Diego Dog A throw chain is a one up on their logic. They know 'mom' said No and then something fell out of the sky and scared me. Some people use throw chains and toss them against something loud but if the dog isn't sound sensitive then a light surprise on their tush would get their attention.
I've used this one, substitute something softer than a chain, folks, I tie a towel into a knot and toss it at my chi and griffie. Same principle as the coin can, only there's no way you can do more than startle them if you hit them. One reminder and the yapping stops because mom the *god* reached across the room to discipline the urchins.

Jan, I've seen exactly what you have talked about. Not a pretty sight! I also work in rescue and most of these methods just terrorize dogs and compound problems.

Top DogI find alot of people when they get the dog from a shelter and the dog shows any signs of submission assume the dog was abused, believe it or not many were not they are just submissive dogs whether you mean to or not, here you are talking behavior modification, not exactly training. I will also agree a blunt prong is safer than a regular choke slipped on backwards.

I quit doggy training school because I found in most cases, repeat most, behavior modification worked better for the long term, same as with children. It means I have to find the reasons behind the problem, stay on my toes and outthink the dog.

In a nutshell, nothing any of us have said will work for all dogs. Most of what we have offered are not even suitable for a novice who may do it incorrectly or hurt the dog by mistake. There's also the owner who when jerking a prong or choke will get carried away and take out their anger or frustration on the dog instead of correcting properly. There's no quick and easy fix here, so talk to people, alot of professionals and then decide on what sounds workable and KIND.

ddddb4, I hear alot of frustration in your posts and I sympathize. After you get alot of suggestions, choose carefully what sounds the most reasonable and what you can follow through with.

Keep us posted, we all learn from each other's experiences.

[DiegoDog]

So original you use the surprise method sometimes? The throw chain is designed for it. I've seen people use keys. Now I think thats a harsh becaue keys are jagged. If you saw one it looks like a mini choke chain but has the weight of say a baracelet, its very light.

[cashnbecky]

I got another idea to make you all crazy. When I adopted Lucy, my english setter, I asked why she had been put in rescue. Well, it was from barking. The woman who was fostering her said to me very matter of factly "You know, it only costs $100 to have your dog de-barked. That's what I would do." I thanked her for the advice and took Lucy home. I've worked with her and we are doing well. She likes to go out in the dark at night and bark mindlessly into the darkness. Usually, just a word from me brings her inside.

becky, birdy, marvin and lucy (bark bark!)

[originalfatc]

Of course I use surprise. What do you call hand clapping? Surprise is one thing, force is another.

[DiegoDog]

Anything used wrong could be considered unnessicary force. As for the de-barking thing. That sounds cruel. I can think of some pop stars that should be de-barked but I like the sound of my dog's voice, I only correct him if he is barking up crazy at something. Not common anymore though. Hand clapping doesn't surprise my dog. If I clapped my hands at him he'd think I was an idiot

[ddddb4]

wow....feeling overwhelmed with all the "suggestions". Think my dog has read these posts - he's been laying upstairs and hasn't barked for a couple of hours. LOL Trying something a little different - put him on a chain outside of the kids' room. Now he knows where they are - but doesn't have the freedom to look for things to bark at. He seems pretty content at the moment. Gonna keep trying to work with him - if it doesn't kill me, it'll make me stronger. Right???? He's a very hyper creature and thinks he should have the run of the house - guess it's time to prove him wrong. Just like the kids...he'll have to earn his freedom a little at a time. I know, someone is going to think I'm evil for putting him on a chain.....but it seems to be working. It's like he knows his "herding" duties are limited and he's not as nervous as when he's tracking the whole household.
I appreciate all of your input and I will definately keep you posted!
New here - but love the site!! Thanks ALL!!!

[originalfatc]

One last suggestion-lots more excercise! A tired dog is a happy dog and an obedient dog.

[DiegoDog]

I gotta agree with you on that one Original. My pooch loves camp. When we come home he sleeps for three days. Plus I have to take him for three good walks a day. (Living in an aprartment) and my dog is definitely one happy dog

[renee]

As the animal control officer of a small town, one of my most common calls are from "nuisance barkers". Although a lot of them are people who simply tie their dogs outside and leave them, there are some cases where the owner has tried everything to keep their dogs from barking. I have had one in which a "shock" collar worked for their dog, but for the most part, in my experience they do not help, and can traumatize the dog. Also, a lot of times a dog simply is barking because they like the sound of their voice...these dogs many times will simply learn to accept the shock. I have two dogs myself, one of which is a hound mix who loves to hear himself bark. In desperation once, I actually broke down and took the advice of a trainer, and used a shock collar. Although it did keep him from barking while he was wearing it, he was so downtrodden, miserable, and jumpy I took it off immediately. It took weeks for him to be back to his old, happy-go-lucky self. In short, although shock collars certainly can work, and do work in many cases, the downside of them is not worth it to me. I would rather listen to my dog bark than take the chance of turning him into a nervous wreck.

Not that it works for everyone, but I myself find that slapping a rolled up newspaper on a table or piece of furniture near the dog distracts and startles them long enough to stop them from barking. When they do, they get a toy or biscuit. I haven't had a problem in a long time.

[originalfatc]

And there's another vote for exactly how I do it!

Thanks, Rene!

[DiegoDog]

Renee you just have to remeber with that one. Not all dogs are sound sensitive. But I agree that would work fine on a dog that is sound senstive. A dog that isn't woudl just look at you like an idiot. Also another way is a squirt gun. But again these are things people have to test. See what their dog dislikes. I can't use a squirt gun on my dog, he'd try and catch the squirts. But some dogs run from it. Simple and easy and can be done from across the room

[hyke38]

I raise Sheltie's, And I own schock collar's. Shock collar's in the wrong hands can be bad. The newer ones are then best they have tones as well as the shock. you can give either or. They also let you decided the strangth of shock. I have found with barkers it normally only takes the tone to train them or a mild shock. The dog feeling no more then a tingle just to distarct them, or remined them not to bark. The only thing I would say is make sure that you have a a dummy collar. When you are not right there put this collar on them. If you already have one and dont have a dummy collar. Fold a wash colth into the size of the box on the collar. Then wrap it around a collar put tape (I have use duck tape) around to hold it in place. This well make the dog think he has the collar on but prevents any misshaps from leaveing the real collar on when you are away. I know alot of folks think a shock collar is bad. The bark collars that are barked activated I belive should not be used they can do more harm then good. You may get rid of the barking but may end up with a scared dog.

[jenn]

I read these with interest as my chihuahua is a barker. he barks at anything and nothing at all. At one time I thought about a shock collar but decided against it because of this whole inhumane debate and because they are fairly expensive. I have tried startle methods, I've yelled, I"ve put Oscar in doggie time out in the laundry room. I have found a squirt gun the most effective but it is hard to keep track of all the time or my son gets it and misuses it. Usually if he gets in trouble for barking he will go cower in a corner, but continue to bark as if he just can't control himself. Oscar is a very submissive boy. I have had him since he was a pup and he is treated with nothing but kindness but he will still cower and roll over at any harsh word towards him. I think most people would probably assume he has been abused at some point. No one has complained yet and our closest neighbors also have a barker. The dogs bark at eachother as long as they are permitted. We just live with his barking and get out the squirt gun or put him in time out when we can't take it anymore. I run a day care in my home. A little girl who comes here and first started talking learned how to say "Oscar NO!" very quickly. Good luck with your barker

[Brittney]

People would be surprised what a little patience, love and understanding will accomplish.

I agree with that statement. If you don't have the patience, love and time I say you don't need a dog. My uncle used the shock collar for his one dog and it just caused fear. You need the dog to trust and respect you, not fear you. Excessive yelling and hitting can cause the fear thing too. Continue to work with the dog and see what works best. I personally would NEVER use a shock collar as I think it's a cruel thing. HAVE PATIENCE! ;) Goodluck with it. :)

[Harleymilo]

i AGREE WITH DIEGO DOG. I USED A TRAINER TO STOP MY LAB FROM JUMPING ON PEOPLE WHEN THEY CAME TO THE DOOR. SHE HAD ME FILL A SICK WITH ENOUGH COINS SO THAT IT WOULDNT HURT, BUT JUST SURPRISE HIM. I WOULD THROW IT EITHER ON THE FLOOR NEAR HIM, OR IF OUTSIDE, AT HIS REAR. IT WORKS AND IT IS CHEAP, PAINLESS AND NOW ALL I DO IS SHOW HIM THE SOCK AND HE SITS DOWN.


sorry- A SOCK, NOT A "SICK"

[ddddb4]

Thanks a million for all the input - have finally figured out that my dog is not stupid, just stubborn. He knows he's not supposed to bark at every little thing - if he's outside and i go to the door or window (anywhere he can see me) he won't bark at the neighbors, cars, birds, wind.... However, this means that I have to make myself visible to him every 2 minutes! So I really think I'm going to have to resort to some type of collar so that he will learn it is not ok to bark - even if I am not right there. Thanks again for all the help - and keep the advice coming!

[Squawksx3]

Sorry to hear its not getting better ddddb4 :( . It sounds like he's your only dog, do you think maybe he's just lonely or bored?. Dogs are social animals and need constant companionship from either people or another dog. Have you considered getting him a playmate?... I dont know if you're in a position to add another fur-kid, but it may help. Best of luck to you.

[tatertot]

only have a tip for inside excessive barking. there's a little devise that whenever a dog barks it lets off a really high pitched beeping, people can't hear it, but dogs sure can. it doesn't hurt their ears, just annoys them and distracts them. we've got one beside the door, our keeshond (Izzy likes to bark whenever she hears something or someone at the door, but then she never shuts up!) we put the dog barking beeper thing and she barks, then shuts up. the only bad thing is we have to replace the batteries about once every two or three weeks later.

[macassie]

Tatertot,

Where did you find this device? Do you remember the brand name? My BC mix, Cassie can be a barker and this could be the very thing to help!

[macassie]

Thanks Carrie - I'll check it out!

[Mybella]

I have found that a surprize squirt of water works great. On the small dogs I use a squirt gun and with some very large stubborn dogs I use the water hose, but not a hard spray. I have a degree in psychology/behavior and the small water gun was even used on children that had sever behavior problems. It works without harm and is called tough love!!!! You will have to decide what is best for your situation. Good Luck.

[dog_ma]

My dog is a barker too. He barks at people walking by the house, people that he sees around the block, people on bikes, motorcycles, etc. But he doesn't bark at squirrels or birds, which is a good thing since there are so many around here.

When I am around and he barks, I yell his name very loudly to get his attention, then I say no bark. He sort of grumbles, making some kind of dog noise, like he's trying to get the last word in. But he does stop barking. He doesn't go outside by himself, so he doesn't bark outdoors all day or anything, and when he's in the house alone, he isn't bothering anyone. He doesn't bark when he is out on his leash, so that isn't a problem either.

I know a woman who uses a sour spray stuff on her dogs. Actually she doesn't have to use it anymore, she holds up the bottle if they don't stop barking when she tells them to, and that makes them stop.

I guess behavior modification of some type is the answer, but the problem is, how is it enforced when you are not around? I can see the benefit to a shock collar even though the idea of shocking the animal bothers me. If the collar works as it should along with training, eventually the dog wouldn't need to wear the collar, right?

Tammy

[ReneeD70]

I must be really lucky! When I first adopted Daisy I worried she had been de-barked because she didn't utter a sound for weeks. Now she only barks when she sees strangers from the backyard, which is rare or of course, she barks at the mailman:)

Renee