Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans

[John Olexa]

Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans?
BMJ Vol 328, pp 514-7


Much animal research into potential human treatments is wasted because it is poorly conducted and not thoroughly evaluated, argue leading doctors in this week's BMJ. (British Medical Journal )
They call for urgent, formal reviews of existing animal research. They identified six comprehensive reviews of animal experiments from the scientific literature. All six highlighted deficiencies in the contribution that animal research makes to clinical medicine, such as poor design and animal and clinical trials being conducted simultaneously.
If animal experiments fail to inform medical research, or if the quality of the experiments is so poor as to render the findings inconclusive, then the research will have been conducted unnecessarily.
The scientists call for a programme of research to review existing animal data, to find out whether the animal research can be applied to humans. Professor Ian Roberts, one of the authors of the report said, 'We are only asking that the same standards as are applied in human research are applied to animal research.
We would not tolerate haphazard potentially biased reviews of human research so why should we tolerate this for animal research? New research, whether in animals or humans, should only be carried out after a proper systematic review of the existing research. What's more, comparing results from systematic reviews of animal and human research will allow us to assess the contribution of animal research to improving human health.'


Contact: Emma Dickinson
edickinson@bmj.com
44-207-383-6529
BMJ-British Medical Journal

[John Olexa]

I have been wondering about that. All these years of testing on animals, what have we accomplished?? Did I miss something? i can't think of one major breakthrough. no cure's nothing from testing on animals Has there been??

[For_the_dogs]

Not to upset anyone, because animal testing has been such an awful industry in so many ways but I think that many vaccines for both animals and humans had to be tested on animals Many lives have been saved by avoiding illnesses.

This is NO EXCUSE for testing everything under the sun on a rabbit's eyes just to see if it irritates.:mad: Its the what and the how of the testing that has become (or always has been?) perverted and cruel.

Please be kind... sorry.

[SimoneD]

Testing on animals has always been cruel and unnecessary, not just so now. Testing is torture, the tests are not even relevant to any medical prodecure, how can seeing how long it takes for a dog to die from starving and other so called tests be benefical to any human health. If they want to test for products or whatever, do them on ********people. Sorry to ramble on but this makes my blood boil, it has been going on too long, with too many people believing that animal testing is benefical, watch a few videos of undercover investigations - nothing worthwhile or humane there.

[John Olexa]

Not to upset anyone, because animal testing has been such an awful industry in so many ways but I think that many vaccines for both animals and humans had to be tested on animals Many lives have been saved by avoiding illnesses.

This is NO EXCUSE for testing everything under the sun on a rabbit's eyes just to see if it irritates.:mad: Its the what and the how of the testing that has become (or always has been?) perverted and cruel.

Please be kind... sorry.

No Problem. thats what I'm looking for. What vaccines?
I can't find where testing on animals has done a dang thing to "save" humans

[For_the_dogs]

Its an ugly world - they've recently developed a post-exposure Marburg vaccine that's effectiive on monkeys. For those that don't know, Marburg is a supervirus, causing bleeding out and death in 90% of those that contract it-humans that is. I think monkeys have a lower mortality rate. Its a virus straight from hell.

I guarantee I'm not volunteering to test the post-exposure vaccine!

I hate to think about the poor monkeys, but unfortunately this virus is spread from monkey to human. To learn more about superviruses, read "The Hot Zone" - if you dare! Its non-fiction and scary as H E -doublehockeysticks.

[John Olexa]

but unfortunately this virus is spread from monkey to human.

Ok, but How many average people have contact with monkeys on a daly basis???

Except for the people who Experiment on them. I still don't understand?

[For_the_dogs]

On the other hand, science has progressed so far and better methods not involving animal testing can be used in almost all cases. Just as your post says:
The scientists call for a programme of research to review existing animal data, to find out whether the animal research can be applied to humans. Professor Ian Roberts, one of the authors of the report said, 'We are only asking that the same standards as are applied in human research are applied to animal research.
Go, Ian!:cool:

[For_the_dogs]

Ok, but How many average people have contact with monkeys on a daly basis???
It then is transmissable from human to human. So that innocent nurse and doctor that treat the person can catch it.

The really scary virus is Ebola...

[John Olexa]

[QUOTE=For_the_dogs]It then is transmissable from human to human. So that innocent nurse and doctor that treat the person can catch it.QUOTE]

Ahhh, ok that makes sence. But it's still the people who experiment on monkeys in labs that get it then pass it on to those doc's & nurses????

who else has contact with wild Monkeys?

[For_the_dogs]

Very, very few people do. Maybe a petlover that takes in an orphaned baby monkey? I'm really reaching here... :o

[John Olexa]

but unfortunately this virus is spread from monkey to human.

[/QUOTE]Very, very few people do. Maybe a petlover that takes in an orphaned baby monkey? I'm really reaching here... [/QUOTE]


First , Sorry I still don't know how to post more then one quote at a time LOL.


Ok, so if humans didn't experiment on monkeys in labs, then this Marburg thing that is a supervirus, causing bleeding out and death in 90% of those that contract it. Wouldn't be a problem?? Right?

FTD, please note I'm not trying to argue with you at all! :) I'm just not sure I understand all this.... Does being Bald mean the same as being blonde ? :D

[For_the_dogs]

Well, 90% in 3rd world countries, with all modern treatment and life-support equipment the death rate was 25%... of 32 people, I think it was. In Marburg, Germany, this one guy visiting from Africa didn't have anything to do with monkeys, they really don't know how he caught it. He went in a cave full of bat guano in Africa, kept wild birds as pets, etc, they just don't know.

As I said in the beginning, sorry. I agree with what Ian says, animal testing should follow the same requirements as human testing.

[For_the_dogs]

By the way, John, don't let me soften your opinion! We need you to be out there, standing up for what's right!

[John Olexa]

animal testing should follow the same requirements as human testing.

As in getting there permmision ???? :D ;)


Well, 90% in 3rd world countries, with all modern treatment and life-support equipment the death rate was 25%... of 32 people,

Thats not good!
Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans? Just tell me never mind LOL Don't worry about trying to explain, I'm so lost now it's funny.

[judy]

well john what would hapen if a human for instance did contract Ebola just for instance Ebola is the worst fastest threat to human beings if a vaccine could have been found by testing on animals to save to human race and remm us pet lovers look after our animals and the virus did spread who would look after are animals then if an epidemic did hit so my question is ?is it better to sacrifice to save the human race who ultimatley looks after the lesser creatures if we werent here who would look after them

[John Olexa]

Creatures were here long before man ever was.

But to answer your question. It would take at least 10 years! before a vaccine, found to work would be ready for the public.

what about in the past? Nobody has posted where testing on animals has done a dang thing. I'm not saying there isn't any, but would like to see something.

[For_the_dogs]

Cowpox vaccine circa 1909
Insulin

I can't believe I had to research this . . such horrible thoughts. Anyway, here's a link that gives a lot of information although their slant is somewhat pro-animal testing. Not completely.
http://www.rds-online.org.uk

I just had to read what LD50 stands for: 50% of lethal dose.:eek: Just how do they figure that out? I really don't want to know the details. Its being banned in the UK.

By the way, Judy, Ebola is very scary. They've been trying to develop a vaccine since AT LEAST 1983, according to the book "The Hot Zone" and it tears me apart to think how many wild monkeys have been captured and sent over here to die in a cage. Still no vaccine for Ebola, at least I haven't heard of one. The only way they'll get human tests when they do have one is for another outbreak to threaten a huge population.

On the other hand, they don't have reliable research to recommend how often pets should be vaccinated? Now, that's Bullhonkey!

[For_the_dogs]

As in getting there permission ???? :D ;)




Thats not good!
Where is the evidence that animal research benefits humans? Just tell me never mind LOL Don't worry about trying to explain, I'm so lost now it's funny.
Touche' You're always an excellent sparring partner! Informed consent... I laughed about that all night!

[Sassyblonde]

Okay John, you know that I completely respect you and your opinions. LOL, banter between the two of us got heated last time, and I don't want to open that can of worms again. Really, I love ya bud. I just simply to make a quick comment.

First, let me preface this by saying Animal Research Sucks. It's horrible, every part of it, and I hate that it has to be done. And you're correct, there are things being done that are COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. But John, you ask how it has benefited humans....first, almost every surgical procedure that has been performed on humans has been developed through practice on animals. One of the research projects being done at the university I attended in the ophthalmology department was the development of a procedure for corneal transplants - using mice as a model. If they succeed, this procedure would be a cornerstone to restore sight to both humans and animals.

Also, I don't know how familiar you are with vaccine development - I worked for Fort Dodge Animal Health during Veterinary School, which develops vaccines for animals. Before a vaccine is cleared for use in the general animal population, it has to undergo rigorous testing for efficacy, maternal anitibody interference to see when it should be given, virus challenge studies, and adverse reaction studies. If you take your pet to the vet and get it vaccinated, THAT VACCINE that is protecting your animal has been tested rigorously. And I'm sorry to say, it's been tested on other animals.

It sucks. Totally. But until someone can come up with a way to ensure vaccine safety and efficacy before it's released to the general population, I don't know what to say. Can you imagine the lawsuits from untested drugs that were released into the general population? LOL, our law system would crash.

Okay, all done. Remember, I'm not saying it's right. I'm only answering the question.

[John Olexa]

- using mice as a model. If they succeed, this procedure would be a cornerstone to restore sight to both humans and animals.

And if it don't succeed?? "Oh well"?? back to the drawing board?

I understand what your saying but still how much testing is a Complete Waste of Time & is Useless.

surgical procedures are one thing, ok, but What about the big Diseases? what has been Accomplished.. Nothing that I can find.I can't think of one major breakthrough. no cure's nothing . How much progress is being made? and in how many years now?

I wonder what the percentage is of animals killed that did nothing to help, to those that were killed that actually Accomplished something.What 10% actually beneficial.

When it fails what happens?. Bet it's hush, hush.

"Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are like us.' Ask the experimenters why it is morally OK to experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are not like us.' Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction."
-Professor Charles R. Magel

As many as 115 million animals are experimented on and killed in laboratories in the U.S. every year. Much of the experimentation-including pumping chemicals into rats' stomachs, hacking muscle tissue from dogs' thighs, and putting baby monkeys in isolation chambers far from their mothers-is paid for by us!, the American taxpayer , yet we can't visit a laboratory and see how the government has spent our money. You can't even get an accurate count on the number of animals killed every year because experimenters and the government have decided that mice and rats and certain other animals don't even have to be counted.

Animal experimentation is a multibillion-dollar industry fueled by massive public funding and involving a complex web of corporate, government, and university laboratories, cage and food manufacturers, and animal breeders, dealers, and transporters. The industry and its people profit because animals, who cannot defend themselves against abuse, are legally imprisoned and exploited, With no Major cure found for anything, that I can find.

[Sassyblonde]

And if it don't succeed?? "Oh well"?? back to the drawing board?

Unfortunately, yeah. I could come back and say the same thing...And if they do?

Of course we talked about this subject in my veterinary ethics class. Here's a bit from my notes, which the professor said was taken from a number of websites, from the FDA, CDC, FBR, and WHO:

(This is directly from my notes)

What are the benefits of using animal research in science?
Research is the foundation for all medical science and animals - practically all of which are mice and rats - are the foundation of this research. Biomedical research involving lab animals has played a vital role in virtually every major medical advance of the last century. Practically every present day protocol for the prevention, control, and cure of disease and pain is based on knowledge attained - directly or indirectly - through research with lab animals.

Animal research provides invaluable and irreplaceable insights into human systems because there are striking similarities between the physiological and genetic systems of animals humans. There is also a legal requirement to test drugs, medical devices and other promising treatments on animals before humans. These legal requirements are outlined in the Nuremburg Code and the Helsinki Declaration.

What diseases have been cured through animal research?
Practically every present day protocol for the prevention, control, and cure of disease and pain is based on knowledge attained - directly or indirectly - through research with lab animals. Animal research has led to the discovery of insulin, antibiotics, analgesics(acetaminophen,ibuprofen), anti-depressants(benzodiazepines) and anesthetics(isoflurane); the development of kidney, liver and heart transplants, bypass surgery, heart catheterization and joint replacement. The small pox vaccine was developed by studying cowpox in animals.

If you want to get VERY specific, this is a listing of NOBEL prizes, and the animals to which they're research was based.

Year
Scientist(s)
Animal(s)
Contributions Made

2004 Axel, Mouse, Odorant receptors and the organization of the olfactory system
2003 Lauterbur, Mansfield Clam, rat Imaging of human internal organs with exact and non-invasive methods (MRI)
2002 Brenner, Horvitz, Sulston Roundworm Genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death
2000 Carlsson, Greengard, Kandel Mouse, Guinea pig, sea slug, Signal transduction in the nervous system
1999
Blobel Various animal cells Proteins have intrinsic signals that govern their transport and localization in the cell.
1998
Furchgott, Ignarro, Murad Rabbit Nitric oxide as signaling molecule in cardiovascular system
1997
Prusiner* Hamster, mouse Discovery and characterization of prions
1996
Doherty, Zinkernagel Mouse Immune-system detection of virus-infected cells
1995
Lewis, Wieschaus, Nusslein-Volhard Fruit fly Genetic control of early structural development
1992
Fischer, Krebs Rabbit Regulatory mechanism in cells
1991
Neher, Sakmann Frog Chemical communication between cells
1990
Murray*, Thomas*
Dog
Organ transplantation techniques

1989
Varmus, Bishop
Chicken
Cellular origin of retroviral oncogenes

1987
Tonegawa Mouse Basic principles of antibody synthesis
1986
Levi-Montalcini, Cohen Mouse, chick, snake Nerve growth factor and epidermal growth factor
1984
Milstein, Kohler, Jerne Mouse Techniques of monoclonal antibody formation
1982
Bergstrom, Samuelsson, Vane Ram, rabbit, guinea pig Discovery of prostaglandins
1981
Sperry, Hubel*, Wiesel* Cat, monkey Processing of visual information by the brain
1980
Benacerraf, Dausset, Snell Mouse, guinea pig Identification of histocompatibility antigens and mechanism of action
1979
Cormack, Hounsfield Pig Development of computer assisted tomography (CAT scan)
1977
Guilemin, Schally, Yalow Sheep, swine Hypothalamic hormones
1976
Blumberg, Gajdusek Chimpanzee Slow viruses, and new mechanisms for dissemination of diseases
1975
Baltimore*, Dulbecco, Temin Monkey, horse, chicken, mouse Interaction between tumor viruses and genetic material
1974
de Duve, Palade, Claude Chicken, guinea pig, rat Structural and functional organization of cells
1973
von Frisch, Lorenz, Tinbergen
Bee, bird
Organization of social and behavioral patterns in animals

1972
Edelman, Porter Guinea pig, rabbit Chemical structure of antibodies
1971
Sutherland Mammalian liver Mechanism of the actions of hormones
1970
Katz, von Euler, Axelrod Cat, rat Mechanisms of storage and release of nerve transmitters
1968
Holley, Khorana, Nirenberg Rat Interpretation of genetic code and its role in protein synthesis
1967
Harttline, Granit, Wald Chicken, rabbit, fish, crab Primary physiological and chemical processes of vision
1966
Rous, Huggins
Rat, rabbit, hen
Tumor-inducing viruses and hormonal treatment of cancer

1964
Bloch, Lynen Rat Regulation of cholesterol and
fatty acid metabolism
1963
Eccles, Hodgkin, Huxley Cat, frog,
squid, crab Ionic involvement in excitation and inhibition in peripheral and central portions of the nerve
1961
von Bekesy Guinea pig Physical mechanism of simulation in the cochlea
1960
Burnet, Medawar Rabbit Understanding of acquired immune tolerance
1957
Bovet Dog, rabbit Production of synthetic curare and its action on vascular and smooth muscle
1955
Theorell Horse Nature and mode of action of oxidative enzymes
1954
Enders, Weller, Robbins Monkey, mouse Culture of poliovirus that led to development of vaccine
1953
Krebs, Lipmann Pigeon Characterization of the citric acid cycle
1952
Waksman Guinea pig Discovery of streptomycin
1951
Theiler Monkey, mouse Development of yellow fever vaccine
1950
Kendall, Hench, Reichstein Cow Antiarthritic role of adrenal hormones
1949
Hess, Moniz Cat Functional organization of the brain as a coordinator of internal organs
1947
Carl Cori, Gerty Cori
Houssay Frog, toad, dog Catalytic conversion glycogen; role of pituitary in sugar metabolism
1945
Fleming, Chain, Florey Mouse Curative effect of penicillin in bacterial infections
1944
Erlanger, Gasser Cat Specific functions of nerve cells
1943
Dam, Doisy
Rat, dog,
chick, mouse
Discovery of function of vitamin K

1939
Domagk Mouse, rabbit Antibacterial effects of prontosil
1938
Heymans Dog Role of the sinus and aortic mechanisms in regulation of respiration
1936
Dale, Loewi Cat, frog
bird, reptile Chemical transmission of nerve impulses
1935
Spemann Amphibian Organizer effect in embryonic development
1934
Whipple, Murphy, Minot Dog Liver therapy for anemia
1932
Sherrington, Adrian Dog, cat Functions of neurons
1929
Eijkman, Hopkins Chicken Discovery of antineuritic and growth stimulating vitamins
1928
Nicolle Monkey, pig,
rat, mouse Pathogenesis of typhus
1924
Einthoven Dog Mechanism of the electrocardiograph
1923
Banting, Macleod Dog, rabbit, fish Discovery of insulin and mechanism of diabetes
1922
Hill, Meyerhof Frog Consumption of oxygen and lactic acid metabolism in muscle
1920
Krogh Frog Discovery of capillary motor regulating system
1919
Bordet Guinea pig,
horse, rabbit Mechanisms of immunity
1913
Richet Dog, rabbit Mechanisms of anaphylaxis
1912
Carrel Dog Surgical advances in the suture and grafting of blood vessels
1910
Kossel Bird Knowledge of cell chemistry through work on proteins including nuclear substances
1908
Metchnikov, Ehrlich Bird, fish,
guinea pig Immune reactions and functions of phagocytes
1907
Laveran Bird Role of protozoa as cause of disease
1906 Golgi, Cajal Dog, horse Characterization of the central nervous system
1905
Koch Cow, sheep Studies of pathogenesis of tuberculosis
1904 Pavlov Dog Animal responses to various stimuli
1902 Ross Pigeon Understanding of malaria life cycle
1901 von Behring Guinea pig Development of diphtheria antiserum

[Sassyblonde]

surgical procedures are one thing, ok, but What about the big Diseases? what has been Accomplished.. Nothing that I can find.I can't think of one major breakthrough.

One more thing...this line struck me. Surgical procedures are one thing, but what about the big diseases? The advancement in surgical procedures ALONE is absolutely huge. Huge!

As for the big diseases....I think that you would be hard pressed to find a disease that ISN'T using animals to conduct research. One of my friends from highschool's father is one of the world's leading AIDS researchers...I visited his lab, which was using rats and mice. My best friend is doing a Phd in muscular dystrophy research...she's also using rats and mice.

I think that the problem with your question is that you are looking for us to point out one experiment that lead to one major breakthrough. The truth of the matter is, a breakthrough is made over years of complimentary experiments that are weaved together to discover the truth.

And for those reading, please, still remember, I DO NOT LIKE ANIMAL RESEARCH. John makes a VERY VALID POINT above when he showed the quote:

"Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are like us.' Ask the experimenters why it is morally OK to experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are not like us.' Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction."
-Professor Charles R. Magel

It's true. Absolutely. But until there is a way around it, I don't know what to do about it.

[John Olexa]

If you want to get VERY specific, this is a listing of NOBEL prizes, and the animals to which they're research was based.

Year
Scientist(s)
Animal(s)
Contributions Made

2004 Axel, Mouse, Odorant receptors and the organization of the olfactory system
2003 Lauterbur, Mansfield Clam, rat Imaging of human internal organs with exact and non-invasive methods (MRI)
2002 Brenner, Horvitz, Sulston Roundworm Genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death
2000 Carlsson, Greengard, Kandel Mouse, Guinea pig, sea slug, Signal transduction in the nervous system
1999
Blobel Various animal cells Proteins have intrinsic signals that govern their transport and localization in the cell.
1998
Furchgott, Ignarro, Murad Rabbit Nitric oxide as signaling molecule in cardiovascular system
1997
Prusiner* Hamster, mouse Discovery and characterization of prions
1996
Doherty, Zinkernagel Mouse Immune-system detection of virus-infected cells
1995
Lewis, Wieschaus, Nusslein-Volhard Fruit fly Genetic control of early structural development
1992
Fischer, Krebs Rabbit Regulatory mechanism in cells
1991
Neher, Sakmann Frog Chemical communication between cells
1990
Murray*, Thomas*
Dog
Organ transplantation techniques

1989
Varmus, Bishop
Chicken
Cellular origin of retroviral oncogenes

1987
Tonegawa Mouse Basic principles of antibody synthesis
1986
Levi-Montalcini, Cohen Mouse, chick, snake Nerve growth factor and epidermal growth factor
1984
Milstein, Kohler, Jerne Mouse Techniques of monoclonal antibody formation
1982
Bergstrom, Samuelsson, Vane Ram, rabbit, guinea pig Discovery of prostaglandins
1981
Sperry, Hubel*, Wiesel* Cat, monkey Processing of visual information by the brain
1980
Benacerraf, Dausset, Snell Mouse, guinea pig Identification of histocompatibility antigens and mechanism of action
1979
Cormack, Hounsfield Pig Development of computer assisted tomography (CAT scan)
1977
Guilemin, Schally, Yalow Sheep, swine Hypothalamic hormones
1976
Blumberg, Gajdusek Chimpanzee Slow viruses, and new mechanisms for dissemination of diseases
1975
Baltimore*, Dulbecco, Temin Monkey, horse, chicken, mouse Interaction between tumor viruses and genetic material
1974
de Duve, Palade, Claude Chicken, guinea pig, rat Structural and functional organization of cells
1973
von Frisch, Lorenz, Tinbergen
Bee, bird
Organization of social and behavioral patterns in animals

1972
Edelman, Porter Guinea pig, rabbit Chemical structure of antibodies
1971
Sutherland Mammalian liver Mechanism of the actions of hormones
1970
Katz, von Euler, Axelrod Cat, rat Mechanisms of storage and release of nerve transmitters
1968
Holley, Khorana, Nirenberg Rat Interpretation of genetic code and its role in protein synthesis
1967
Harttline, Granit, Wald Chicken, rabbit, fish, crab Primary physiological and chemical processes of vision
1966
Rous, Huggins
Rat, rabbit, hen
Tumor-inducing viruses and hormonal treatment of cancer

1964
Bloch, Lynen Rat Regulation of cholesterol and
fatty acid metabolism
1963
Eccles, Hodgkin, Huxley Cat, frog,
squid, crab Ionic involvement in excitation and inhibition in peripheral and central portions of the nerve
1961
von Bekesy Guinea pig Physical mechanism of simulation in the cochlea
1960
Burnet, Medawar Rabbit Understanding of acquired immune tolerance
1957
Bovet Dog, rabbit Production of synthetic curare and its action on vascular and smooth muscle
1955
Theorell Horse Nature and mode of action of oxidative enzymes
1954
Enders, Weller, Robbins Monkey, mouse Culture of poliovirus that led to development of vaccine
1953
Krebs, Lipmann Pigeon Characterization of the citric acid cycle
1952
Waksman Guinea pig Discovery of streptomycin
1951
Theiler Monkey, mouse Development of yellow fever vaccine
1950
Kendall, Hench, Reichstein Cow Antiarthritic role of adrenal hormones
1949
Hess, Moniz Cat Functional organization of the brain as a coordinator of internal organs
1947
Carl Cori, Gerty Cori
Houssay Frog, toad, dog Catalytic conversion glycogen; role of pituitary in sugar metabolism
1945
Fleming, Chain, Florey Mouse Curative effect of penicillin in bacterial infections
1944
Erlanger, Gasser Cat Specific functions of nerve cells
1943
Dam, Doisy
Rat, dog,
chick, mouse
Discovery of function of vitamin K

1939
Domagk Mouse, rabbit Antibacterial effects of prontosil
1938
Heymans Dog Role of the sinus and aortic mechanisms in regulation of respiration
1936
Dale, Loewi Cat, frog
bird, reptile Chemical transmission of nerve impulses
1935
Spemann Amphibian Organizer effect in embryonic development
1934
Whipple, Murphy, Minot Dog Liver therapy for anemia
1932
Sherrington, Adrian Dog, cat Functions of neurons
1929
Eijkman, Hopkins Chicken Discovery of antineuritic and growth stimulating vitamins
1928
Nicolle Monkey, pig,
rat, mouse Pathogenesis of typhus
1924
Einthoven Dog Mechanism of the electrocardiograph
1923
Banting, Macleod Dog, rabbit, fish Discovery of insulin and mechanism of diabetes
1922
Hill, Meyerhof Frog Consumption of oxygen and lactic acid metabolism in muscle
1920
Krogh Frog Discovery of capillary motor regulating system
1919
Bordet Guinea pig,
horse, rabbit Mechanisms of immunity
1913
Richet Dog, rabbit Mechanisms of anaphylaxis
1912
Carrel Dog Surgical advances in the suture and grafting of blood vessels
1910
Kossel Bird Knowledge of cell chemistry through work on proteins including nuclear substances
1908
Metchnikov, Ehrlich Bird, fish,
guinea pig Immune reactions and functions of phagocytes
1907
Laveran Bird Role of protozoa as cause of disease
1906 Golgi, Cajal Dog, horse Characterization of the central nervous system
1905
Koch Cow, sheep Studies of pathogenesis of tuberculosis
1904 Pavlov Dog Animal responses to various stimuli
1902 Ross Pigeon Understanding of malaria life cycle
1901 von Behring Guinea pig Development of diphtheria antiserum

Well can't argue with you there... because I don't have a clue what 99% of that stuff is!! LOL :D

But still nobody has showed what I'm asking for A major breakthrought A cure for a Cancer or AIDS . Something of that magnitude that is from testing on animals, not saying there isn't one, but where is it, if there is?

Going to the batting cage to hit some balls , be back after while LOL

[John Olexa]

Never mind the cage! LOL, walked outside the sky is black as night LOL Big Thunderstorms heading this way.

[Sassyblonde]

Well can't argue with you there... because I don't have a clue what 99% of that stuff is!! LOL

Love ya, John! Thanks for keeping it light. You know, I would seriously love to hang out with you sometime.....we'd have a great time kicking back with a few beers. We're probably the two most unlikely looking people to banter together - you, the hunky big muscled hard ass with a soft heart, and me, a hottie blonde that loves to get crazy and dance on tables. Wanna take me on a motorcycle ride sometime? :)

But still nobody has showed what I'm asking for A major breakthrought A cure for a Cancer or AIDS .

Actually, we have. The development of Insulin is on the same magnitude. Without it, people would DIE from diabetes. It IS a cure.

Or how about the small pox vaccine? We've irradicated small pox! A disease that wiped out BILLIONS has now been eradicated.

Or antibiotics? Can you imagine the deathrate from infections? A lung infection could be a death sentence!

And as I said before, I can't get passed the fact that you're missing the point about surgical procedures. Without the ability to perform heart bypass surgery, or liver transplants, we'd lose millions more.

Okay, so I've said my peace. Hope that you had fun at the batting cages John...I used to play softball, but haven't hit a ball in ages! I'm headed off to a bbq at a friend's house, and then probably off to the bars for a little partying.

Sassy out!

[John Olexa]

[QUOTE=Sassyblonde] :) Actually, we have. The development of Insulin is on the same magnitude. Without it, people would DIE from diabetes. It IS a cure. [QUOTE]


Insulin is not a cure for diabetes, It keeps it in check, but does not cure it. if it was a cure then you would not have diabetes.

People may not die from diabetes, but many do from complications from it. Even while taking there insulin

[JustSteph]

You two are entertainment. I can almost see the steam. Glad you kept it light John.:D LOL

[John Olexa]

and me, a hottie blonde that loves to get crazy and dance on tables. Wanna take me on a motorcycle ride sometime? Sassy out!

LOL Well I do agree with you on that!!! :) Nice bunny shirt I might add ;)

[John Olexa]

As for the big diseases....I think that you would be hard pressed to find a disease that ISN'T using animals to conduct research. One of my friends from highschool's father is one of the world's leading AIDS researchers...I visited his lab, which was using rats and mice. My best friend is doing a Phd in muscular dystrophy research...she's also using rats and mice.

I think that the problem with your question is that you are looking for us to point out one experiment that lead to one major breakthrough. The truth of the matter is, a breakthrough is made over years of complimentary experiments that are weaved together to discover the truth.


Yes thats my point they are using animals to conduct research , over & over & over with no results.
you want to stop Aids. Quit having unprotected sex that will go a lot furthur to ending aids then testing on all the monkeys in the world.

[For_the_dogs]

Well, this is a greate debate! No meanness, and the issue is definately a hottie! I love discussing things that don't have a clear answer.

Sassyblonde, the smallpox vaccine was really only developed after they cultured the cells in vitro, whereas the cowpox vaccine is a direct animal success. And the cowpox vaccine led to the smallpox vaccine. I don't think we could make any animals sick with smallpox, could we?
And as I said before, I can't get passed the fact that you're missing the point about surgical procedures. Without the ability to perform heart bypass surgery, or liver transplants, we'd lose millions more.

This is where I get irritated-and I'm not missing the point. Even if you agree that we need to practice on live animals to become proficient at surgery, why can't sick animals be helped, instead of breeding healthy dogs just to die under the knife in schools? After all, they seek human candidates to volunteer for trial surgeries, why not help people's pets?

And, not all doctors go on to be heart surgeons. Some MD's aren't proficient enough to write a prescription, let alone cut someone open! Yet most of them have to take these classes? I don't think that's right.

[John Olexa]

You two are entertainment. I can almost see the steam. Glad you kept it light John.:D LOL

Well I owed it to her.
A while back we had a debate, That got out of hand.. Well I'm the one that got out of hand Not sassyblonde.

I honestly didn't know some vet schools practiced on healthy, but homeless dogs & cats that they would get from the shelter. After working on them they would enuthanize them...... I lost it!!.
I did make a public Apology the next day. Something I don't normaly do, even when I'm.... wrong, (which is never) :p .
But really felt compelled to in this case.

[For_the_dogs]

Yeah, I found out that a couple of years back there was a vet around here breeding beagles to sell to a University for just that purpose. Students were required to take the course - even though some didn't want to do the procedure. I don't "lose it" but it felt totally wrong. The trouble is they do things in the name of medicine that's TOTALLY USELESS. It could make my blood boil if I let it under my skin.

Clinically there is very little room for the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi - the Patron Saint of Animals. But there should be...

[SimoneD]

Doesnt matter to me what anyone says about testing on animals being warranted and benefical to humans, it never has been and never will be. I might be a emu with my head in the sand and ass to the air, but I will never believe that testing on animals is right, and I never will.