shoulder

[sleeepy2]

For the past five months I've been letting Cleo sit on my shoulder. I've been reading that this is a bad idea (especially for Amazons) and can lead to aggressive behavior. He never had any problems but after reading Joanie Doss' article I've decided to not let him on my shoulder any more. Has anyone else had problems from letting their bird sit on their shoulder?

fyi- here's a link to the article:
http://parrothouse.com/jdoss2.html

[birdygirl]

My only problem with the shoulder thing is my pionus climbs up my hair to sit on my head. But with some types of birds in the spring tha happens alot.

[JSimko]

I have never had any problems, my blue and gold sits on my shoulder most of the time. When just spending time sitting on the couch and watching TV, Taz sits on my legs because his tail is in the way if i am sitting down. Also when I take a walk with the bird and my dog, he sits on my left arm, because he likes to help hold the leash.

[Jenny]

I think it's a good idea not to let him sit on your shoulder. I've read many places about owners who were completely trusting of their larger birds and let them sit on their shoulders, and then unexpectedly one day they got a big bite in the face! I definitely wouldn't want that to happen and have a big scar on the side of my face! ESPECIALLY don't let your bird on your shoulder if they aren't trained to "step-up". When I first got Kirby my green-cheek, I didn't know very much and let him sit on my shoulder all the time. Whenever I wanted him off, though, he'd crawl all over my head and back and I usually had to lay down on the floor to get him within reach so I coudl get him off! lol Anyway, I decided (hard as it was) to stop letting him on my shoulder for a few weeks. One day I gave in and let him get up there, and since he was more trusting of my hands and I had trained him more, he stepped right up. Now I've learned the easy ways to get him off, and it's no problem at all. All I have to do is put my finger there, and he hops on (usually)! ;) In the few cases that he's being stubborn and wont' get on, I can just put my hand around his back and pull him off and he doesn't mind a bit. But, he is very small and his beak can do little damage, so with a larger bird I still wouldn't let them sit on your shoulder. The main danger about lettign birds sit there is that they feel higher than you and therefore feel that THEY are in charge, not you, and aren't as likely to listen to you and behave. To JSimko, is Taz completely dependable on "step-up"? He's still young but in a few years I'd worry that it'd be a very bad idea letting him sit on your shoulder. Maybe just as a precaution you could work for five minutes a day on getting him off your shoulder and then rewarding him each time, so when he gets older he won't be a problem? Who knows, maybe he'll always be an angel to get off your shoulder for you, but I'd be careful and not count on that. Anyway, that's so cute about Taz helping hold the leash! :) Wish I coudl see that!

[Mrs.Birdy]

I have a friend who knows of a macaw owner who went to kiss him on the beak and the macaw grabbed her by the bottom lip and wouldn't let go. She gently tried to unlock him for at least 1 hour (needless to say she was terrified of losing her lower lip). Eventually he released and she had just a small amount of damage.

Scary!!!!

[Jenny]

Case in point...! I would have been extremely terrified! :eek: I'm glad she finally got him off! I know of someone who got bit on the lip by a horse but unfortuneately he didn't have such an easy time prying the horse's teeth off... OUCH!

[sleeepy2]

The problem is, the more I read about parrots, the more contradictory info I see. I made my decision on not letting Cleo on my shoulder based on the theory of height/ eye level = dominance, but then I read this:

"It is entirely possible that ideas that we hold to be true today may very well be proven foolish as time passes. A good example of this is the theory of "height dominance," which states that allowing a parrot to perch up higher than the owner's eye level or on the owner's shoulder will result in a parrot who believes itself to be the dominant member of the relationship, resulting in non-compliance. While most avian behavior consultants accepted this theory as fact for many years, voicing warnings to always keep parrots perched down low, it has now become clear to many working in the field that there is little truth to this."

Now I don't know what to think. Still, a random bite to the face from a startled bird is probably reason enough to keep him off my shoulder.
For the article I extracted the above excerpt from, check:
http://parrothouse.com/pamelaclark/feathersandflight.html

The rest of the article is questioning the practice of clipping wings, which I had always read was a no-brainer. Again, it gets a bit contradictory. Thanks for everone's replies, though. Good to hear from you!

[Redstorm1721]

My Parrot, I know this will sound funny! But she sucks on my lower lip. It never hurts, it feels so funny. I have to always tell her no!I can't help but laugh everytime she does this. I mean it is really funny and funny feeling. I am bad. But I am trying to teach her not to do this. By me laughing it isen't that great of a help! LOL. She can always make me laugh,even if I am sad. No matter what, she will somehow make me laugh. I have even tried to make believe I am sad,and that lasts 1 minute before I am laughing again!!!!!! So Funny!

[Redstorm1721]

Ps. This happens while she sits on my shoulder.

[Jenny]

I found that article quite interesting! Thanks for sharing it with us. I was hoping to find out why they think there is now "little truth to this" but I guess it didn't say. I guess you'd better just go by your individual bird, and try to decide what's the very best. Like I said earlier, my bird gives me absolutely no problems sitting on my shoulder, so it just depends. I agree with you about keeping him off your shoulder in order to potentially avoid a bite- that sounds like what I'd do too. The rest of the article about wing-clipping got me thinking too, and it was nice to read the pros about keeping your bird flighted! I've always felt "bad" in the back of my head for not clipping Kirby's wings, so it was nice to read that from a professional behavior consultant! *sigh of relief* To anyone who read that article, what do you think? Are your birds flighted, or not?

[sleeepy2]

I've had budgies for the past nine years and recently had to give them away. When I bought the first 2, their wings were clipped. After the first molt, I let them grow in. I never had the closeness with them again, because when they were on my finger and I made any move they didn't like, they flew back to the cage. When my budgies began breeding (7 babies!!) I felt, as a complete amateur, that the babies should be allowed to fly (we had an enclosed front porch that was perfect for their out-of-cage time). I never got to know the offspring the way I did the parents, but I feel the flock was perfectly happy flying around together like little fighter planes. When I would lay on the couch reading, they'd buzz between my head and my book, to let me know they were there. I can't imagine Cleo (Amazon) flopping around the house crashing into things. It's an interesting thought, weighing personal satisfaction versus flock happiness.

[Mrs.Birdy]

My Marcel sits so contently on my shoulder all the time. However, I do worry about biting. He hasn't bitten be yet.

All my birds have their wings clipped and seem to be very happy. They are much more easy to handle and I believe they are friendlier this way.

Thanks for posting that very informative article.

[Redstorm1721]

I didn't see the part about the wing clipping? did I miss it? 2 of my birds wings are clipped and one isen't. The one that isen't is not friendly. the others are. She is a very happy bird talking and singing all the time. But she will not tolerate anyone touching her. I do want to get her wings clipped. She did have them clipped when we first got her.

[Jenny]

Since I've let my budgie's wing feathers grow out, they are slightly less tame than before, but they still will land close to me and on my head when they feel like it, and will eat out of my hand. If I spent more time individually with each of them, I know they'd be just like they were when their wings were clipped. The kick I get out of seeing them fly around the room together at 90 miles per hour though more than makes up for it! In my opinion, they're way more fun being able to fly, and it gives them exercise and more to do. Kirby can fly, and he's perfectly tame and just as friendly as when his wings were clipped. I have no problem handling him at all, and like the article said, it's fun to give the birds more choice to where they want to go. Kirby seems like a much more interesting, fun bird now that he can fly! My other conure's wings are clipped because before he'd fly to Kirby's cage and fight with him, or fly onto my chair and start chewing- which was making my mom mad, of course. The one good thing about clipping their wings is that I can take him outside with me alot, which he loves. Gail, the article address about wing clipping is above in sleeepy2's post.

[dlaura]

We keep all of our birds clipped - even tweety the parakeet.
There are just too many dangers in our house (i.e. Walls, fireplace, hot stove, cat, dog, etc.) that they could fly into and severly hurt themselves.

They all seem happy and adjusted. Even Angel is doing much better since getting more baths and attention. Keeping my fingers crossed - but looks like feathers are coming back in
around her crop.

Jason also likes to take Taz & Tweety outside for walks with the dog. He also takes Taz to flea market and to fast food places.
This concerns me as I know it would break all our hearts if any
of them were to fly away. So, I am constantly making sure that they are clipped.