Our pet can not eat dog food/allergy

[mask316]

Hi I am new ot the forum as far as posting but not reading. I have a small issue that Im hoping someone else may have been through here.

We have 3 dogs
male aussie/britt mix 7yrs
female healer/collie mix 5yrs
and my daughters new addition a male 7 week old lab/bullmastiff

Thankfully the people are the alpha's we dont have mutli dog behavior issue's. The sub alpha is the female and the dogs respect that.

Our issue is our 7yr old. He is allergic to dog food. Caned or dry. We have tried every kind you can think of all that are listed here. We have even gone to the expense of importing dog food. The allergy is extremly bad leading to open skin sores and a dog type depression. He has been on medication many types and they leave him tired, inactive and gains wieght. So I had to resort to making the dog his own food. This means of course that the alpha female eats it also and the puppy although brand new is starting to reject his food wanting what the other dogs eat, even though they eat in seperate places.

The diet for the 7 yr old is 30% protien (chicken, turkey or fish)
30% carbs or starch (rice, pasta or cooked potatoes)
30% veggies like carrots and squash
and 10% fruit like watermelon

The diet for the 5yr old female since she is more active and requires a bit more protien is 35% protien, 35% carbs or starch, 20% veggies and 10% fruit.

Both dogs are extremely healthy and although it does not wipe out the 7 yr olds allergies 100% we have no open sores only itchy places on the back. We help stop that with weekly medicated baths and a tea tree oil spray. On bad days and antihistamine.

My vet is on vacation and I know the Puppy requires even a larger amount of protien, however because of his fast growth because of breed I have ot be careful for the health of his joints not to help induce fast growth. I was thinking of 40% protien, 40% carbs or starch and the rest split betwen veggies and fruit which the dogs see as treats?

Anyone else have a problem like mine?
Any insight would be helpful
Thank you

[jojoalexis]

WOW! sorry for such issues. I am sure someone here will give some insight. Good luck with your babies.

[mask316]

Well jojoalexis I have to say it sounds bigger then it is once your used to it. It pains me more all the years we went through trying ot find out what trigger his allergies. He is a old man for his breed, 65 pounds, imposing looking, scary bark...puppy :)

He does not care about pack order, he never wants to fight and his whole world is us. He stilll loves ball and to wrestle. But when his allergies are very bad all he can do is ask us to scratch and wont even engage in "fun" play and that is what breaks our hearts because it is his nature. When he is having good allergy days he engages the healer they rough house all over and he is happy. The poor healer loves him and does not understand why sometimes he does not want to play.

We had an awful time before we found out he was allergic to frontline he would just lie on his bed in the closet as if he had no hope in the world. He is now on advantige and while it bothers him some its can be controlled and nothing compared to what happens to him if he gets flea's.

His personality is a "lover" as we call him and we know something is very wrong when out 65 pound lap dog does not want to cuddle. The food diet has helped alot, and we had to balance maybe unknown bad effects with his quality of life. We can not have him in a room we are sweeping or cleaning. Couches have to be vacumed every few days, his bedding washed every week. Sometimes we get tired of it but the difference it makes in this dog's life is amazing and worth it.

I want our healer and new puppy to be healthy also I know there are benefits to good dog food. But the reality is they smell the chicken..or whatever and they know so they have rejected dog food altogether. When we tried ot keep the healer on the dog food she would be aggresive towards our aussie. It just creates a "why does he get that and I don't" vibe amoung the dogs. Our healer being the alpha female she would make our aussies life awful and then in turn we would have to punish her. So it seems the lesser of two evils. I do put in the healers food good dog food I mix it. I will do so with the puppy because I want them to have a balanced proper diet.

We are blessed with great dogs and the puppy seeems great also. 7 weeks and only 2 potties in the house. He is starting already to walk to the door. He respects the older dogs. Its really funny all of dogs were the last of mixed litters never intended. We almost did not get all of them but other people backed out. In fact our aussie was brought back cause the person who was to get the dog was allergic kind of ironic :)

Happy New Year to you

[jojoalexis]

sounds like an amazing family :) I feel confident that there are people on this forum who can offer great advice, feeding tips etc. Sounds like your babies are in the right hands and very fortunate. I am eager to see suggestions that are made and improvments in the near future. I would imagine that the weather must also be irritating???

good luck and Happy New Year to you as well and if you csn, post some happy pics for us to see

[BabyElephant]

You shouldn't really put dog food in with a homecooked diet at the same meal, it can upset all the careful work you are doing with the home cooked diet. All your dogs can and will thrive on a good home diet, but you might need to add extra supplements in there to help them.

Have you tried a raw diet with them? It's not for everybody but it worked for us. Poppy had a skin infection earlier this year, then an eye infection which turned in to constant eye discharge, I did some research and realised it could be related to her diet. She's on a mostly raw diet now, with a good quality kibble with no additives or wheat in it as her treats and she's doing great.

[mask316]

Hi BabyElephant,

Your right I just worry about them. It might be a good thing then that they eat everything off the dog food and leave most of it. Ill take the dog food out they won't mind.

The nature of our Aussies allergies are so severe that raw food presents a digestive issue for him. We tried it and he has a hard time keeping the food down long enough to digest. Dogs as im sure you know digest in there stomachs. The mucus the allergies create makes it hard so the cooked food is easier for him to keep down. They do however get raw uncooked beef bones from the butcher for marrow. Its great cause our big boy Aussie gets these huge bones for a day and loves it. The downside is you have to find there hiding place before everyone is off to bed cause they rot and because they are raw its an outside only thing. Its a treat for them. I am not sure when the pup will be ready for those, maybe now but not sure. When we say we are off to the butcher they know and wait. Its about once a week and they wait the entire time by the door.

Are there some suppliments you are thinking of I can add? I know about the bone marrow. I have heard maybe calcium but there are valid arguements on both sides. The vet has told me what he knows. We have a good vet but like us he is always learning so he may not know the latest.

im getting some pictures ready to post of all of the dogs, Ill leave the cats, Parrot and chinchulla for another time :)

[mask316]

Here are our dogs. Hope you like them
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74489571@N00/

Have a wonderful day

[sheplovr]

Also, watch corn and wheat in dog foods with dogs that have allergeries. Flint River Ranch makes a good food for dogs with allergies. www.flintriver.com, I have orderd it and it worked good for my dog, try it.

[blueberrybun]

Have you tried Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul? By looking at your ingredients it looks like it may be about the same!

[mask316]

sheplovr and blueberrybun, yes sadly i have tried them both, There is something in the process of making dog food that must get him because what is in it does not seem to matter. It may be processed food period because he can not have high processed food of any kind like processed cheese or crackers anything like that sets him off. Once he is set in an allergic reaction everything seems to bother him, He gets sores, ear infections and the skin between his claws gets raw and bleeds. He has to start steriod shots, antibiotics and so on and so forth.

I am not trying to sound ungrateful to answers I want everyones thoughts cause I for sure dont know everything. It may also be that we have done what we can do. He does have more good days then not. I just hate to see this get as good as it can be for him cause it really makes him upset.

Thank you both for your suggestions.

[amstaff]

sounds like youre going through what i went through with my dog, dollie. she is now on a raw diet, gets absolutely no grains, including any rice or corn, and gets very little veggies. dogs with allergies are very touch and go. dollie has flea, food, and contact allergies. she was a mess when we adopted her. i use absolutley no chemicals in the house. i do not use any chemicals or fertilizers in my yard. she only drinks spring water, and dogs with allergies should not be getting any grains, even if it is not a direct allergy. allergies are a signal that somthing is wrong. you dont want to feed them something their body cannot digest, such as grains. also avoid startchy veggies like potatoes and high sugar veggies like beets and carrots. remember when you are feeding raw, i know youre doing cooked, but a raw piece of chicken is only about 17% protein. so, you have to do the math different then when comparing kibble. if your dog is only getting about 30% of the meal in protein form, its not actually getting 30% total protein. i also do not give a daily balanced meal. over a period of a week is how i keep it balanced. you dont need to worry about it being so completely balanced at every meal. i do not know many people who feed their kids and selves this way and animals certainly dont naturally get a balanced meal daily. over a weeks time, dollie will eat chicken, beef and turkey parts, including their organs. they need about 1/6 of their intake to be organ meat. now, she also gets other forms of protein, but these are the most common. remember that heart is a muscle though. my dog gets the bones and all when she eats, so i do not do any calcium supplements. when i switched dollie over, she was a very sick dog, so it took about a month for her body to adjust. there was allot of mucus coming out of her body. after that is has been fine. one of the things that was not a huge issue, but that took a few months for us to notice they were gone were her tear stains. she had them really bad when we got her. now, her eyes still water when she eats, but there is no trace. unfortunately, with our environment being so polluted anyway, we can only do so much, they are going to be exposed to stuff we dont want them to anyway. and to a dog with any kind of allergies, that can be detrimental. one last thing, make sure the shampoo youre using does not contain any chemicals or detergents. many shampoos, especially ones from a vet are very harsh. just because a product is made for dogs, does not mean it is ideal for them.

[k1medward]

I have to say that is extreme. But I'm rooting for you mask316. Our loved ones, always deserve our best from us. For anyone reading this message, i do want to say that please do not go IAMS(reply to this message for more information). I would suggest mask316(and to anyone else) that a small bowl of chamomile tea, might help your poor dog's soul. It may help to cope and deal with his nerves, so that he may relax better. My dogs go holistic and are very healthy.

[JustJo]

Amstaff,

I was unaware that dogs can not digest any grains. That is news to me. Do you have a proven study or studies that show actual data proving this? I have always heard that rice and barley are good for dogs.

[PatchO'Pits]

Ok first off unless you have working dogs there is no reasson to feed a kibble with protien over 28% IMO and that includes for a puppy. In RAW diets the protien is higher but their is also a greater deal more moisture/water naturally in the food unlike with kibble.

Large breed puppies should not be fed puppy food from what I have learned and in my opinion. Definately I'd say no to puppy food for a mastiff mix.

Also I've found most vets have little experience with canine nutrition unless it is their specialty.

Has your dog been tested for allergies to rule out enviornmental allergies? If the bad outbreaks are more scattered than constant I'd guess it is an environmental problem. Also with food trials it takes 6-8 weeks unless the dog has an instant reaction to know if the food is the issue and or will help any

What foods have you tried? I looked at what you are cooking and if that is working there are definately compatible kibbles

[PatchO'Pits]

here are some really good foods. they can be more expensive than some others in the stores but you have to feed less, the pup will poop less and they are getting better nutrition

If you can't get any of theses, look into foods that do Not have wheat, corn, soy, or by products in them and have a good meat source as the main ingredient. Also Feeding Raw is an option you may want to look into as well

Timberwolf
With a very high percentage of meat based protein it is quite expensive. But since the dogs don’t eat as much of it, it really ends up being a good buy. There is a wide variety of formulas and 3 are true allergy formulas since they don’t use any form of rice, corn, wheat, or soy.
I currently feed Timberwolf Elk and salmon to both my dogs and puppies. It is a great food and they love it!
here is the link to the company if they don't have it in your area it is worth ordering! http://www.timberwolforganics.com/
here are the ingredients:
Fresh Elk, Salmon Meal, Millet, Sweet Potatoes, Oats, Flaxseed, Carrot, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Fennel Seed, Wild Salmon Oil, Atlantic Kelp, Alfalfa, Potassium Chloride, Amaranth, Currants, Cranberries, Pears, Figs, Thyme, Anise Seed, Ground Cinnamon Bark, Fenugreek, Garlic Pieces, Sunflower Seeds, Sesame Seeds, Apples, Chicory Root, Spirulina, Choline Chloride, Lecithin, Probiotics: (Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Lactis, Bacillus Bifidum, Streptococcus Diacetilactis, Bacillus Subtillus), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a source of vitamin E), Lysine, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Thiamine, Methionine, Carnitine, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Iodine Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine (a source of vitamin B6), Cobalt Proteinate, Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract.

Nature’s Variety:
they coat it in dehydrated raw food. They call this “Bio-coating”. It ups the meat percentage quite a bit, though pound for pound it’s still less than the Timberwolf.

Merrick:
Merrick also coats the kibble in dehydrated meat. They have added freeze dried vegetables and chunks of dehydrated meat in with the kibble.

Wellness This is a baked food, it can be a little smelly in the bag LOLbut a great food non the less. I fed the Super 5 Lamb Mix and the dogs and puppies both did great on it. I switch to Timberwolf as I felt it was higher quality

Canidae

Innova

premium edge

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul

I consider the last 4 are Ok foods better than many others but the others listed are better

of course you have to find what works best for the individual dog but feeding ingredients like by products, corn , wheat, dyes, is just not a good choice IMO and from my overall experiences


This is a list complied by the Whole Dog Journal
It then comes down too which food off of the good list works well for your particular dog

Best Dry Dog Food:

Artemis
Azmira
Back to Basics
Bench & Field
Blue Buffalo
Burns
By Nature Brightlife
California Nautral
Canidae
Canine Caviar
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul
Could Star Kibble
Drs. Foster Smith
Eagle Holistic Select
Evolve Natural
Flint River
Foundations
Fromm 4 Star Nutritionals
Go! Natural
Hund-n-Flocken (Solid Gold)
Innova
Karma
Lick Your Chops
Lifespan
Limitied Diets (IVD)
Merrick
MMillennia (Solid Gold)
Natural Balance
Natural Choice Ultra
Newman's Own
Organix
Phd Viand
Pinnacle
Praire (Nature's Variety)
Premium Edge
Prime Life
Royal Canin Natural Blend
Showbound Naturals
Timberwolf Organics
Verus
Wellness
Wellness Simple Food Solutions
Wysong


Worst Dry Dog Foods:

Beneful
Cycle Adult
Dad's Bite Sized Meal
Diamond Premium Adult Formula
Excel Lamb Meal & Rice
Gravy Train
Happy Tails
HiPro Dog Food
Iams Lamb Meal & Rice
Kibbles & Bits Homestyle Chicken & Vegetable
Max Adult (Nutro)
Maxximum Nutrition
Natural Choice Adult Lamb & Rice (Nutro)
Nature's Recipie "Breed Specific"
Nutra Nuggets Adult Maintenance
Ol' Roy
Pedigree
Purina Dog Chow
Purina One Total Nutrition
Science Diet Adult
Science Diet "Nature's Best With Real Beef..."


Best Canned Dog Foods:


Active Life
Advanced Pet Diets
Artemis
Avo-derm
Azmira
Boulder Creek Farms
California Nautral
Canidae
Drs. Foster Smith
Eagle Holistic Select
Evolve Natural
Evanger's For Dogs
Innova
Lamaderm
Merrick
Natural Balance
Natural Life
Neura Meats
Newman's Own
Nutro Natural Choice Ultra
Petguard Organic
Pinnacle
Prairie (Nature's Variety)
Precise Plus
Sensible Choice
Solid Gold
Spot's Stew
Triumph
Verus
Wellness
Wysong


Worst Canned Dog Foods:

Iams
Eukanuba
Ol' Roy
Pedigree
Science Diet
_____________

[mask316]

Phew! thank you all for all the information!

ok lets see where to start

amstaff... Champ does not keep raw food down well. For him it seemed the raw food diet did not do any better and he had more tummy upset. Im not against or for the diet just talking about Champ. He was on raw food for 3 months no improment but more tummy upset.

My concern is protien in dogs converts only about 12% of itself to simple and complex sugar chains wich supply energy to the centrel nervous system and brain. So I dont know what else to give to replace the carbs for energy source any idea's?
Also we clean with vinager and water. We dont use pesticides and have to keep Champ away from the peach tree when the fruit rippens cause he jumps up and grabs them off the tree. I dont mind but I know to much is to much.

Your right the 30% is not 30% protien in grams its about 9 grams per meal he gets 2 a day and the veggie and fruits for a snack. Im a nutrition freak and yes my kids and family eat the same way balance. I drive them nuts following them around with fruit. My health problems that are genetic have much to do with digestive track so I was forced ot be hyper aware of food and things like that.

I will add organ meat thank you. The shampoo we use is Sebalyt a Salicytic acid base to remove the skin layers that build up any thoughts on that?
Thanks again for your time

K1medward I can try the tea and no iams almost killed him. He is 90% better but Im working on that last 10% :) Champs great Zen is to get in his sleep spot next to the bed before the healer..you can almost see him go "haha!" He is the least dog like of all the dogs, not interested at all in pack order, could care less who gets feed first as long as he gets feed. The only thing he really demands is undivided attention from the family members a few times a day and he gets it.

PatchO'pts...yes he has and besides dog foods, dust mites, and stuff people use to keep pest away. The Mastiff is comming off kibble a little at a time. Again the grams are about 9 for champ to 18 grams a day. 10 For loo loo 20 grams a day and I think the puppy should fall about 24 grams a day. But if I go by percentage I might need to adjust the ratio. The meals are the protien sources the snacks are veggie and fruit cause for some reason our dogs love them. Next to the raw beef bone form the butcher when I get the carrots out they come running very stragne household indeed!

There is one on your food list I have not tried and I will with Champ we know quick and yes the allergies are everyday 24/7 year round. However I don't mind cooking for them im working on the little things that seem to keep him from being free. I am starting ot wonder if it is as good as it is gonna get for him. Since he was a puppy he has always had strange things the vets had to consult on. Nothing deadly but different.

Regarding the mastiff mix. I know we have to really protect his joints and not induce faster growth can you see anything I might be doing that would harm him?


D-day is comming all..Champ went home with hubby today (im taking care of mom who is sick) the pup goes home in a few with daughter to meet the Loo Loo the healer ..oh boy! I expect a blow by blow report form hubby and daughter! Loo Loo poor thing is a misunderstood ruler of the world :P if she gets out of hand we can just put on the bubble machine and her world is complete. hehe good thing the pup is taking his bottom position well with Champ cause he is easy. Im not making light of it but thankfuly the dogs know we love them and also know we are alpha so Ill keep you all informend.

be happy I have not started on the cats, Parrot of chinchulla yet :)

[BabyElephant]

Sounds like you've been doing this a looooong time :) I know what supplements I give Poppy but then she's on raw - I have a book which covers a home cooked diet so I'll check out the supplements they recommend and let you know.

I think that you're doing the right thing with your puppy - I don't think you need to worry on that front!

[catmom]

I found a really good book for a home made dog food.I am considering it for all three of my dogs.The book is "The Natural Dog" The complete guide for caring owners.It's by Mary L. Brennan,D.V.M. with Norma Eckroate.
Hope that book helps.It has all the vitamins and stuff your dogs would need.Good luck.
Wendy

[mask316]

Thank you Wendy Ill pick it up..

as always thank you to everyone for your time I know it is not something you can get back
Take Care

[Balance_IT]

There are some fantastic supplements that I would recommend, actually.
They are called BALANCE IT.
They were developed by boarded veterinary nutritionists, and are currently available for through a veterinarian only. The best part about it is that they are formulated specifically for dogs, and then the vet can use software to figure out the exact right amount for your pet based on their unique signalment and weight.

You can learn more about it at the website www.balanceit.com
Check out the FAQ section--it can tell you pretty much everything you'll need to know!

Hope I've been of some help!

[hilary]

hello to max 316,

The carbs you listed have wheat in them. You need to get the dog to an Naet practioner/vet and find out what the dog is really allergic to so you can avoid. The practioner will clear the dog of his allergies and slowly you can reintroduce the foods that were activating the allergy. just because the food is homemade doesnt assure there is something that is the culprit.It is worth the expense. I was juicing vegetables for years that i was allergic too and was thinking i was benefitting my health because of the juicing. I payed for an expensive test that was worth it in the end. Hope this helps hilary