Holding a dog down [Archive] - Discuss Pets @ PetLovers.Com

spiritwolf68

11-13-2005, 10:36 PM

I have a question. We have our dogs in training it is a 1 year training class. They each have class for 1 hour a week. I also work with them at home for 15 minutes a night. Then I hold each one down until they take in a deep breath and let it out I guess thats shows them you are the Alfa dog. I've had several Pets in training over the years but have never done this before of course none of the classes were ever this long either. Has anyone ever heard of this before?

sdchampion

11-13-2005, 11:08 PM

Yes, I have heard of this approach and have used it on my black lab. I do it in a loving way and whisper to her as I hold her telling her it's ok. She doesn't really fight me at all as I have done this since she came to us at 10 weeks old. I also only do this if she is over excited and has a hard time listening. She does calm down immediately and goes about her business as usual. She is now 6 1/2 months old and I hardly ever have to hold her anymore. She is a sweety and we love her to bunches! LOL

opokki

11-14-2005, 12:02 AM

Maybe not the exact same thing but when my dog was a puppy I would gently hold her on her back and rub her belly speaking softly to her. This is a very vulnerable position for a dog to be in and its great to get them used to being restrained right from the start. At 5yrs of age she voluntarily lays on her back all the time for me without any problems. This is the easiest position for her to be in when I trim her nails.

Whether this helps you establish leadership I don't know...I personally think theres a lot more to it than that. With my dogs I practice NILIF regularly. I have them follow basic obedience cues in exhange for the things they want or need in everyday life.

sdchampion

11-14-2005, 12:08 AM

What is NILIF? And gosh, I wish I could get Bergie to be still while clipping her nails. She is solid black and it is hard enough to see how far to cut. She tries to wrestle out of the hold but we "get er done" after several attemps LOL. I used to cheat and have the vet clip her as a puppy but now that she is done with that I am on my own. It is quite humorous to watch us do this! LOL She should learn by now that she gets treats afterward but as soon as she sees the clippers she has that look of "oh no" in her eyes. :-(

opokki

11-14-2005, 12:37 AM

NILIF = nothing in life is free. It basically means that the dog works for everything it wants or needs. Its a good way to brush up on basic obedience skills as well as improve a dogs compliance rate and speed. It teaches a dog that you are relevant.
For example: dog wants to go outside he must sit first, dog wants dinner he must lie down first, dog wants access to the couch he must down-stay first, ect. Pretty much any opportunity in which you can ask the dog to perform a behavior in exhange for something he wants or needs. And there are just hundreds of opportunities in most of our daily routines that can be used.

There are a few websites that go more into detail about it. Here is one such site:
http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

as soon as she sees the clippers she has that look of "oh no" in her eyes

LOL! Natalie gets that look too, she does'nt like it but allows me to do anyway. She used to squirm a lot as well when she was younger but that improved greatly as she got older.

sdchampion

11-14-2005, 11:26 AM

Oh OK, thanks for the info. I hope Bergie gets better at clipping the nails. LOL I think she uses NILIF on me when I clip those nails! LOL

smallfry

11-17-2005, 10:38 PM

My two are in training for one and a half hours a week, which is fine for Chainey as long as we have a good play session first, but Murph who is six months old, finds it a little long. My instructor uses other methods of establishing dominance... Trying to hold your dog down sounds really confrontational, but that's just IMO...

sdchampion

11-18-2005, 01:50 AM

I guess it depends on how one does the technique. I have found there are several ways apparently to do this. My neighbor who is very educated in dogs showed me how to do it in a gentle non-confrontational way by holding lightly, petting and whispering in Bergie's ear. She seems fine with this. However, I have to agree with you after reading and learning the other more rough ways of doing this technique. It is rather scary to think what would happen if an owner tries the rougher techniques and the animal gets scared and reacts to being scared. :-(

jones

11-20-2005, 11:37 AM

I agree with trainer Suzanne Clothier on the issue of "being the Alpha." --

"If there's a single word I could remove from the language of dog lovers and particularly dog trainers, it's this: alpha. A Greek word meaning first, alpha has seen a lot of duty, mostly serving as the righteous rationale in the ongoing war between man and dog. Like the cross waved by the Crusaders as justification for a staggering list of atrocities committed on non-Christian peoples, the idea that we are acting as alpha has served as justification for a fair amount of unfairness and downright cruelty to dogs. Lurking behind the battle cry of dog training - 'I can't let him get away wth that!' - is our fear that if we do let the dog get away with x, y or z, we will lose our status as top dogs."

The right way to be a leader to your dog is to protect him, take care of his basic needs, set rules and boundaries for him, to be confident and trustworthy, to be in control but fair and flexible. Your dog is not a wolf, and you are not a dog. JMO.

reeskujo

11-23-2005, 02:20 PM

I've raised and owned Akita's for many years and with that breed it is crucial that you establish the Alpha role.I find that most dogs want to please their owners and will do their best to obey if trained correctly.Akitas are extremely stubborn and will try and regain the Alpha often.When my dogs test me I simply grab them by the scruff of the neck,tell them no in a firm voice and make them lay down and stay.Then they realize that they will not dominate me nor will their disobedience be tolerated.I have at times had to take my more difficult ones to the floor,which has also worked.It really depends on the breed and temperment of the dog as to what will work.As for the nail clipping problem,I to went through that and at times still do.My Kujo also has black nails so there's no room for error.I simply grab his paw and tell him very firmly to stay and after a time or two of telling him he will.It takes alot of patience and training as some dogs will always try to test you but it can be done.Don't give up.

opokki

11-24-2005, 01:38 AM

PatchO'Pits

11-24-2005, 08:29 AM

The right way to be a leader to your dog is to protect him, take care of his basic needs, set rules and boundaries for him, to be confident and trustworthy, to be in control but fair and flexible. Your dog is not a wolf, and you are not a dog. JMO. This is well put. Lots of good advice was already given. To that I'd like to add every dog is different and at times making a dog submit may be needed but I don't believe so in most cases. Most dogs are willing to please a fair and consistent owner.

spiritwolf68

11-24-2005, 09:19 AM

PatchO'Pits

11-24-2005, 12:02 PM

Thanks for all the help I was just afraid I was hurting them. Now that I've been doing it for a couple weeks they give in within a couple of minutes and and they don't wine and howl any more. And It has helped a lot my German Shepherd/Rottweiler mix and my American Staffordshire Terrier use to be really mouthy to the point of making or son cry now they don't put there mouths on him at all or us either.

Now being mouthy is another whole issue that means the pup was not really taught bite inhibition it hoestly doesn't mean the dog is dominant in most caeses. ASTs usually also need a great deal of chew toys and to be taught strict rules on being mouthy due to their strength .

All puppies do go throught the biting stage as they are teething.

When the pup does play to rough or even nip a little say "NO" in a firm voice but then also redirect the behavior to a toy like a rope ect. You have to make the toy more interesting than you. You can't just throw it or give it to him and expect him to stop

If you are willing to put the time into training and working with the dog. This is not a major issue.