Raw Diet?

[rileystar04]

Does anyone feed the raw or "BARF" diet to your dog? I am considering switching Riley over but I want to get some more info on it.

Do you find it to be more expensive than say buying a brand of kibble like Innova/Wellness/etc.? I was reading it could help skin problems and allergies - which Riley has a problem with. He's had skin rashes since he was about 9 weeks old, mostly on his neck and groin. I'm wondering if it his diet.

Also, what meats specifically do you feed? Turkey, beef, chicken, etc.? What parts of the meat... like in chicken the breast, thigh etc. and do you leave the bone in? How much do you feed?

I know it's alot of questions! I've looked on lots of websites that haven't been able to answer everything for me. maybe someoen could point me in the right direction.

[amstaff]

yes i feed a raw diet to my dog and 7 cats. i only use meat/bones and above ground veggies. i use mostly turkey and chicken since it is so cheap, but i also use beef, deer, and whatever else i get. my cats will sometimes catch mice in the house and eat them. yes i leave the bones in, all kinds. i feed turkey wings, chicken wings, turkey and chicken drums, chicken leg quarters, chicken necks, deer ribs and vertebrae, etc. for me, i can feed a 50lb. dog and the cats for less than $70 currently. i get ground turkey for 70cents a lb. and chicken leg quarters for 42 cents a lb. turkey wings are 78 cents/lb, turkey backs and necks are 28 cents/lb. it is much cheaper in all areas for me to feed raw as opposed to kibble. cheaper food, and as of yet, less visits to the vet. plus, when my animals go to the bathroom, it hardly smells at all.

here are some sites that may help:

www.dogaware.com
www.b-naturals.com
www.rawlearning.com
www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com
www.rawdogranch.com

also, if you can get on the yahoo! group natural raw dog, there should be alot of info you could do a search on. good luck with what you decide. ive been feeding a raw diet for about a year now and my animals and i love it!

[rileystar04]

Thank you very much! I'm going to look at all those sites now.

[JustJo]

Bullwinkle and Rockie are on Chicken Soup and their poop hardly smells at all either and no dangerous bones to worry about.

[rileystar04]

Bones aren't dangerous, Riley's been eating them for months with no problem.

[Magnum]

Bones aren't dangerous, Riley's been eating them for months with no problem.
Riley, I do respect those that choose to feed raw, but stating bones are not dangerous is not true. Two of my vets have had Raw fed dogs on their operating table to remove, and or repair damage caused from bones. People choosing to feed Raw do need to educate themselves in doing it properly. It is not a no-brainer, and it certainly should not be done without first doing research.;)

[smallfry]

Both my dogs are suseptable to rashes, but i was told it was an alergic reaction to flea bites/flea meds.... no fleas = no rashes.

[rileystar04]

None of my animals have fleas. Never have. Dr said it's a bacterial infection so he's on antibiotics but it doesn't seem to be helping. I think it's the diet.

I've done tons of reading, so I'm off to buy some raw meat to add to his dinner tonight ;)

Amstaff, have you heard of Oma's Pride? It's a distributor of raw pet food. There is one pretty close to where I live. But I wonder if it is more expensive that way?

[rileystar04]

I started Riley on some raw meat for dinner tonight. He had beef top round sliced steak and ground turkey. He ate about 3 pieces of the steak and about 1/2 pound of turkey, and still wanted more! lol
I got him some chicken wings for tomorrow. I figure he can eat them outside. ;)

[amstaff]

it really depends on your finances on what you want to do. if you have a little extra money, the prepackaged raw foods are great. if not, i find learning how to prepare the raw diet yourself is so much cheaper. and, if you ever stop feeding bones, just remember that you have to give a calcium supplement to offset the high phosphorous ratio in meat. many people use organic egg shell. about 1 tsp. per pound of meat.

you may want to have some prepackaged raw in your freezer though, in case your ever running behind schedule.

i'll bet riley's loving you so much right now!

[dustyaddict]

I had a lovely english springer spaniel years ago...He had many skin problems, mostly due to (we thought) flea bites (we lived in the south) and he was on cortizone for the itching and swelling. After moving north his skin was still raw so the vet told me to feed him lamb and rice (canned or kibble). There was a good generic brand on the market at that time called "Shaws" brand. Know what? It worked!! He must have been allergic to Science Diet. Good luck with your search. I know how bad you feel for him. Dusty

[Squawksx3]

Its great that research is being done before switching a dog to raw/BARF diet. There are many factors to consider before doing so and can be harmful to the dog if not done right.

Here's some info that might help. Yes, some from vets.... and before anyone starts stating their opinion on vets and nutrition..please keep in mind that vets see/treat the ill effects and harm raw diets can have on animals ;) .

I am only posting this to make people aware, not to discourage or change anyones mind on how they want to feed their pets. Please educate yourselves for your pets sake. Best of luck to you and your puppers.

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......Even so, the comparison showed that raw meat had significant risks: “The results of the small number of diets analyzed here indicated that there are clearly nutritional and health risks associated with feeding raw food diets. All the diets tested had nutrient deficiencies or excesses that could cause serious health problems when used in a long-term feeding program.”

Remillard hopes the raw meat issue is just a passing fad. “There’s a general distrust of big business, and the pet food industry is big business,” she said. “Add to that, food labels are not understandable and scary. But the risks of raw meat are there. Is the risk worthwhile? No, it isn’t.”

http://dogs.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=dogs&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.petplace.com%2Farticles%2FartS how.asp%3FartID%3D3723

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Raw Meat Diet - caution


When making a diet at home it is important to remember to
include all of the food groups which it seems like you are doing.

I am not aware of any proven benefits of raw meat over cooked meat in
home-made diets. The safest course of action would probably be to cook the
meat to eliminate toxoplasmosis, salmonellosis and E. coli infections. These
are probably the most common food borne diseases that affect dogs when they
are fed raw meat, although other problems are reported.

Toxoplasmosis is a parasite whose cysts live in the muscle of cattle, pigs
and other creatures. If meat is not cooked enough the cysts live and can
infected dogs or humans exposed to them. In an immune compromised patient
this is a much worse problem than in patients with normal immune systems.

E. coli and Salmonella are bacterial infections. In most cases they are the
result of food contamination by infected workers who handle the meat during
processing. I am not aware of any studies that really quantify the risk to
dogs of these illnesses but they are frequently implicated in food poisoning
deaths in humans, we know that dogs do get infections from these bacteria
and it is therefore reasonable to assume that there is a risk which probably
approximates that of humans but may be smaller or even larger than the risk
to people. These would also be more likely to cause serious illness in an
immune compromised patient.

Mike Richards, DVM
http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/drawmeat.html

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The meat that we can buy at the store (the same meat you and I buy and cook before eating) is NOT the same as the meat that a wild animal eats from a natural kill. Commercial meat has been processed and exposed to many factors that make feeding it to our companion pets potentially harmful. If we could provide the same fresh raw meat that the ancestors of today's dog had access to 600,000 years ago, including the hot fresh guts - what wild animals still go for first in a kill - then it might be OK to feed them with that food source. Unfortunately, today's pet owners can't. Meat that is processed and sold through retailers has been exposed to a number of chemical agents. There are 72,00 chemicals now in use in the USA. Commercial meat, even "Organic meat", can be (and most likely is) exposed to most of these 72,00 chemicals. These MUST be destroyed by using heat to generate temperatures that will break them down.


http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/raw.html

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From Dr. Julie Churchill, College of Veterinarian Medicine, University of Minnesota:

I am very much against the raw food diets. Many dogs can do well on a raw food diet. However, they have the potential to be life threatening. Any food that can potentially kill even one animal is not worth the risk. Bones, even raw and ground ones can perforate the GI tract. This can lead to peritoinitis, severe infections, require emergency surgery, and many dogs die each year from this. As for dental health, there are no scientific studies supporting raw food over commercial or cooked foods to maintain dental health. Veterinary dentists recommend daily brushing and periodic cleaning for optimal dental health. Bones can, and do fracture teeth leading the pain and potential tooth root infections requiring root canals and or extractions. There is also a very good study done by my collegues (that will be published in the next year) who analyzed several different recipe's for raw food diets. ALL of them had nutritional deficiencies as well as some serious bacterial contamination. Have you had a veterinary nutritionist evaluate your recipe? These diets ARE contaminated with bacteria. This may not be harmful to a healthy dog......however, dogs don't come with a label saying which ones will be fine and which ones will get sick. Even if dogs do not get sick from the bacteria (such as Salmonella or pathogenic E. Coli- the Jack -in the -Box killer bacteria) they can become "chronic shedders". This means they are carriers of the bacteria which is shed in their stool, and becomes a public health risk to people who might be exposed. This can be esopecially serious if your dog is ever around any children, elderly immunosuppressed people (those on chemotherapy, HIV etc).

Sincerely,
J Churchill

http://secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/testimonies.html

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Please do your research.

[amstaff]

just like there are great sites defending processed kibble, there are great sites defending a raw or homecooked diet. i wonder if the same people who are against a home prepared diet for pets, are against a home prepared diet for humans?

[Squawksx3]

just like there are great sites defending processed kibble, there are great sites defending a raw or homecooked diet. i wonder if the same people who are against a home prepared diet for pets, are against a home prepared diet for humans?

Good question.... like I said... Im just stressing that people do their research and homework first. Humans are capable of making decisions on whats good for themselves... our pets aren't and depend on us to make the best choices for them ;) .

[rileystar04]

Thanks Squawk. I have read the pros and cons, I feel the pros outweight the cons. I'm going to do 50% Innova 50% raw meat for now and see how Riley does. If I see the improvements I'm looking for... with his rash, dandruff, eating habits, stool... I may switch 100% to raw. If not, well I don't know yet lol.

[Squawksx3]

Wonderful!!!. I hope it works and Riley does better :) . My main concern is people coming on here, reading this board and not doing their research and homework. You really need to know what you are doing with such a change in diet. There are pro's and con's to all diets. I for one would feel terrible if someone changed to raw diet because of this board and something happened to their pet. Tho, I have not personally ever fed raw/BARF before and never will... I have heard people say their dogs do very well on it. Good luck and keep us updated on how it goes.

[Magnum]

Thank you Squawks! That is my main concern as well.;)

[rileystar04]

I just wanted some more opinions and info on here that I couldn't find - and thanks to you and amstaff I found that info. I also talked to Riley's trainer, she was a vet for 25yrs and has been training for 15yrs, and all 4 of her dogs are on a raw diet. So I got alot of info from her as well. Riley seems to be very pleased with it lol :D