Behavioral or something else?

[Baileysmamma]

Hi! I just stumbled upon this forum and am so glad! I have a 2 1/2 male mixed breed. I believe that he's either sheltie/shepherd or sheltie/retriever - I've heard both. He's about 30 lbs and as sweet and loving as he can be. I adopted him from the pound when he was 5 wks old. He was born there and his mamma and sibs were adopted out from under him. He was never socialized as a puppy by his mom or by anyone, he was left in the same cage as he was born in. When I found him, he was very "depressed" and would just lay there. Now he's very active and very happy, but I'm definitely his "mamma". He's so affectionate and loving - I love that, but he's also VERY protective! If someone knocks on the door, he goes crazy! Barking and growling. Now - keep in mind, I live alone and want that "guard dog mentality", however I have a very hard time controlling him. He's very nervous. He barks at everyone or ever dog/cat when we walk. If I have company, they have to completely ignore him. He'll sniff and sometimes lick them, but if they try to pet him he goes crazy. I just moved a week 1/2 ago (his first move since I brought him home) and that seems to have made things a bit worse. I'm giving him some benadryl right now to try and help calm the nerves. The other thing he's doing now, that he's NEVER done before is tear up my floor in the bathroom. :eek: I live in an apartment, so I'm not sure if he's acting out, or if he smells the dog that lived there previously under the vinyl. I don't want to get onto him if he's not doing anything wrong. I'm just at a loss. He's so precious and I want to do the best thing for him. Can anyone help me? Oh - and right now I don't have the money to pay for training, it's just up to me. Thanks!

Julie - mamma to Bailey

[Mutt Manners]

Hi Julie and welcome to Petlovers! Julie here and I'm a trainer and behaviorist so I thought I would help out if I can. It sounds to me like your bailey is acting out after his first big move and he's a little unsure about his surroundings and if there was a dog in the apartment perviously he can most definately smell that.

I would not worry about the protection he is showing as long as you can control him. I would not allow visitors into the house until you have him leashed up and then let your visitors in. Have you done obedience training with him? If not start with that and teach him sit and stay and down stay. Once you have that you can teach him a go to bed command and have him lay down quietly while you visit with guests. For now I would leash him up before people enter your home and reassure him that these are friends. Pet him, get down to his level and love on him, talk to him in a soft comforting voice and let him know everything is ok. He should take his cue from you and if your calm then he will be too in time. Give him the opportuntiy to calm down and get used to the new house.

I would get yourself a training collar (choke chain) and remember it's a training tool and it can be put on the wrong way so be careful. you should make a P formation with the chain and then slip it over his head. If he gets out of control snap it back quickly and tell him NO. Always keep the chain loose unless you are giving a correction which should be a quick jerk on the chain and then back to loose immediately! You should be able to get control of him with a training collar and the use of your voice telling him NO. Once he stops the crazy behavior reward him - love him and tell him good dog. The positive reinforcement is as important as the correction if not more so. You need to teach him what behavior is ok and what is not - he does not know what you expect of him and it sounds like he feels he is alpha right now and it's his job to protect you. You need to change that and tell him that you are alpha and it's your job to protect the house and people in it. It's ok for him to bark to alert you that someone is close or at the door. But once you know that you should teach him the "Quit" command so that he will stop the barking and growling. I would correct him after a few barks and tell him NO! until he stops and then praise praise praise for listening to you. Start there and if you have any questions I am always here. Feel free to ask any further questions I enjoy helping even though I can't do it in person. Which of course is much easier. But this is better then nothing.

Good luck!

Julie

[barksalotbis]

I agree with the collar -I use a prong collar on one of my shelties - she barks at everything also - I did take her to obedience classes, and she walks and acts like a charm with that prong collar on when I take her for walks - I never even have to pull up when she wears it - she knows what it feels like when I pull. Shelties are also barkers - at least most of them I have had - you just have to work with them alot and bring them under control. Positive reinforcement works wonders too! My male sheltie does really well when you baby him beyond belief! Good luck with your dog!

[Codykins]

I just watch the "dog whisper" the other night and the episode was exactly what you are describing with your dog. Here is the link to Cesar's site you can watch episode's

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/glossary.html

According to Cesar a large portion of this behavior has to with the dog and the unknown. It is very important to take your dog "out side" for walks and socialize him to his environment - this sounds especially important if you recently moved. I highly recommend you hire a behaviorist - this is a behavior issue. Ever since I hired one I can't believe what I have learned. Cesar recommends a 45 minute power walk with your dog everyday.

The walk is an extremely important ritual for a dog. It needs to take place a minimum of once a day, for at least 30 to 45 minutes, so that both the dog's mind and body are given a workout. It's also crucial to act as the dog's leader during a walk. That means the dog walks either next to or behind its owner—not pulling ahead. If a dog is "walking" its owner, the dog perceives itself as pack leader and the owner is not in control.

[PatchO'Pits]

Welcome to the forums

I'd take steps way back and start from the kind of socialization I do with lil pups. Easy does it take your time! There are critical socialization time frame periods IMO which the pup has missed, but you can still hopefully work through some of these issues.

Timing, consistency, patience and structure will be very important to your training

I agree about the leash training. I'd concentrate on a lot of basic obedience skills too. The dog seems to be lacking in confidence. Build him up with training successes. With the mix of breeds she needs to be kept BUSY. Working dogs are usually not happy just sitting around

[Baileysmamma]

Hi! Thank you all for the replies. Just wanted you to know that I did get the choke collar. The first time I put it on him, he just trotted around like he was something special until he lurched at a couple coming out of their apartment. I jerked it softly and said "no". Well, it ended the problem, but he got very offended. Bless his heart, it looked like he was walking in slow motion and his ears were back. When we got back to the apartment, I took him off, showered him with praise and gave him a treat. The next day he wouldn't let me get anywhere nere him with the leash or anything - he did NOT want that thing back on. So, I let him curl up and then while petting him just put the leash on and then slipped the collar back over his head - not using it that time, just letting him get used to it. This time I didn't take it off and now I can fasten it at any time. That's ok, right? :confused:

The other thing - he's still chewing things up during the day. I guess I'm going to have to get him back in a kennel. He's about 30 lbs and the top of his head comes to the top of my knee (I'm 5'3"). Can you recommend the best thing to get that doesn't cost a fortune? I really don't have a lot of extra money for this, but I can't let him destroy my new place either. At the other apartment I let him have full riegn because the carpet was already messed up, etc. Now when I put him in the utility room, he doesn't have any accidents, but I don't know that I can trust him not to use the entire apartment as his "backyard". He's been known to do that before.

Oh - and can anyone recommend a behaviorist in the Memphis, TN area?

Thanks for your help!

Julie

[Sheltiemama]

I have a pure bred sheltie that acted the same as your pup is acting when someone came to the door or when the phone would ring. She also would take her frustration out on me when I would try to corral her and calm her down. She'd even bite me and draw blood. Obedience training is a must just to build the pups confidence also I'd impliment the NILIF program at home (NILIF is just an acronym for nothing in life is free) it is simply stated that for everything you do for your dog he is to do something for you first. Examples: before you give a treat he is to lay down, when you feed he is to sit before you place the bowl on the floor.

I counciled with some long time sheltie owners/trainers regarding the doorbell and phone problem I was having and knowing that all shelties are high strung and most are unable to hear when they are in a frenzy. To break the frenzy it was suggested that I use a passive punishment, rather than a choke chain, or a prong collar (your choice here) such as a squirt bottle filled with plain water to get her attention first, then place her in spot where she felt safe (crate, chair, another room or the like) before I went to the door to let my guests in. Once she calmed down I would allow her to greet the guests and let her make the decision whether she would interact with them or not. It took about a week and now she knows that if she goes balistic when the door bell rings I'll squirt her with the water. So to avoid the water, she barks a few times and then runs to her crate and sits down and waits for me to shut the door. I'm happy with her behavior, she still is allowed to bark when someone comes to the house, and we are both comfortable with the training. This passive punishment also works with excessive barking or other unwanted behavior as well.

[PetFlare.com]

Hi! I just stumbled upon this forum and am so glad! I have a 2 1/2 male mixed breed. I believe that he's either sheltie/shepherd or sheltie/retriever - I've heard both. He's about 30 lbs and as sweet and loving as he can be. I adopted him from the pound when he was 5 wks old. He was born there and his mamma and sibs were adopted out from under him. He was never socialized as a puppy by his mom or by anyone, he was left in the same cage as he was born in. When I found him, he was very "depressed" and would just lay there. Now he's very active and very happy, but I'm definitely his "mamma". He's so affectionate and loving - I love that, but he's also VERY protective! If someone knocks on the door, he goes crazy! Barking and growling. Now - keep in mind, I live alone and want that "guard dog mentality", however I have a very hard time controlling him. He's very nervous. He barks at everyone or ever dog/cat when we walk. If I have company, they have to completely ignore him. He'll sniff and sometimes lick them, but if they try to pet him he goes crazy. I just moved a week 1/2 ago (his first move since I brought him home) and that seems to have made things a bit worse. I'm giving him some benadryl right now to try and help calm the nerves. The other thing he's doing now, that he's NEVER done before is tear up my floor in the bathroom. :eek: I live in an apartment, so I'm not sure if he's acting out, or if he smells the dog that lived there previously under the vinyl. I don't want to get onto him if he's not doing anything wrong. I'm just at a loss. He's so precious and I want to do the best thing for him. Can anyone help me? Oh - and right now I don't have the money to pay for training, it's just up to me. Thanks!

Julie - mamma to Bailey

I agree with Mutt Manners, itsounds to me like your bailey is acting out after his first big move and he's a little unsure about his surroundings and if there was a dog in the apartment perviously he can most definately smell that.

Do you have any pictures you could show us?

[Codykins]

To train a dog you have to be in control of that dog at ALL times. That means on a leash, in the house and out! Don't take off his collar, its not necessary. When you are not home, your dog should have a crate. Dog's love their crates, it's like a den to them. A safe place to call "home" or their "room". My dog actually wants to go into his crate when there are many activities around him and he gets a little stressed. If you have your dog on the leash or in the crate he can't chew your belongings. Once he is trained to sit by you, come to you and STAY you can let him off the leash or let go of the leash so you have easy access to give a nudge if necessary. If he goes for something he shouldn't you should jerk the lead to re-divert his attention, call him to you "come" and make him "sit/stay". Give your dog some toys, not a lot of toys 2 or 3 is sufficient. When you can't be with him, put him in his crate - he won't mind. Don't use the crate as punishment!

[Baileysmamma]

To train a dog you have to be in control of that dog at ALL times. That means on a leash, in the house and out! Don't take off his collar, its not necessary. When you are not home, your dog should have a crate. Dog's love their crates, it's like a den to them. A safe place to call "home" or their "room". My dog actually wants to go into his crate when there are many activities around him and he gets a little stressed. If you have your dog on the leash or in the crate he can't chew your belongings. Once he is trained to sit by you, come to you and STAY you can let him off the leash or let go of the leash so you have easy access to give a nudge if necessary. If he goes for something he shouldn't you should jerk the lead to re-divert his attention, call him to you "come" and make him "sit/stay". Give your dog some toys, not a lot of toys 2 or 3 is sufficient. When you can't be with him, put him in his crate - he won't mind. Don't use the crate as punishment!

Which answers my other question - How do you "chase them down?" I guess if he's always on a leash, it would be easy to step on it. He always acts like he's in trouble when I'm putting him in the utility room. His ears go back he tucks his tail and is a master evader! Is he just manipulating me big time? I've always had dogs in my family - an Australian Terrior and a Keeshond - but we never had to train them, they just acted right. This one is definitely testing me. Of course my mom says that it's what I get - just like if I had a child acting like that. ;) I love him to death, and I know that I need to fix this now so that he can be a great dog. He just frustrates me to no end some time!

What about crate size and brand? I don't have a clue of what size to get him.

Julie

[Codykins]

Your are right, with the leash you don't chase - you give a tug and a command "come", then a praise "good dog".

Mutt Matters is a trainer lets see if she can give you details. I can't tell you with a short version. But I would start with the leash, this is a long time of training (possibly months) before you get the dog to do what you ask. As for the crate it only needs to big enough for him lay down comfortably. If he is not use to it he is going to give you some objection and whinning. Good trick is if he is in the crate and whinning walk by, don't say a work, and strick the crate - make noise, he will settle down. If he tries to storm the door when you open it - slam it in his face, he will back up, if he does it again - slam it again he will learn to wait for you to call him "come". Start with teaching sit, make him sit before he eats, before he goes outside (you go out first) or before he gets water he must sit. If you get the dog to sit on command you have a good foundation to start training.

[Baileysmamma]

Your are right, with the leash you don't chase - you give a tug and a command "come", then a praise "good dog".

Mutt Matters is a trainer lets see if she can give you details. I can't tell you with a short version. But I would start with the leash, this is a long time of training (possibly months) before you get the dog to do what you ask. As for the crate it only needs to big enough for him lay down comfortably. If he is not use to it he is going to give you some objection and whinning. Good trick is if he is in the crate and whinning walk by, don't say a work, and strick the crate - make noise, he will settle down. If he tries to storm the door when you open it - slam it in his face, he will back up, if he does it again - slam it again he will learn to wait for you to call him "come". Start with teaching sit, make him sit before he eats, before he goes outside (you go out first) or before he gets water he must sit. If you get the dog to sit on command you have a good foundation to start training.

Can I just say how great it is that I found this site?!? It made me feel better knowing that you have a good foundation if he can sit. He does sit for treats and food - sometimes if you have him sit, he collapses and curls up, but he has the sit thing down pat. And he's so pretty when he sits, chest stuck out, tail fluffed...ok, yeah I'm a proud mamma. I'm just so worried that I've done something to "ruin" him. It is encouraging to get these hints and ideas and know that it is ok to do them in training and that they won't hate you forever. When I get onto Bailey, he seems so offended. He sulkes forever! He can be such a brat, but such a loveable one. =)

thanks again!!!